Roger, I've always thought of you as equal to everyone else upon this list.
And when I disagree with others over this or that perspective, or opinion I
say so and have done so equally. Mostly, though I don't have the time to
address every post. And nor do most folks have time to respond to all of my
posts.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, "I do respect you Roger".
Sometimes I disagree. I respect Marx's contributions, but I am not a Marxist
for I disagree with some elements of his thoughts and more importantly
disagree with the actions of many Marxist-Leninists. Some of those
disagreements I've gone in to over time. But, as you point out an e-mail
list cannot ever go in to every nuance, etc. It is simply impossible.
I also, at the risk of contradiction here respect and value the efforts of
many Marxist-Leninist in the past. For example many former wobblies joined
the CP or SWP in the post Palmer Raid era. Many including the likes of Helen
Girly Brown, William Travis and many more led major union organizing and
strikes gaining valuable worker rights in the 1930's. That included a
substantial role of Marxists in the Flint Sit-Down strikes and the formation
of the UAW.
Sadly, there were some purges within labor of these valuable leaders
especially during the "Red Scare" era after 1948.
During the late sixties and early seventies I was engaged with both the
so-called "new left" and the "old left". I even joined your party, the SWP
for a short period. I sold the Militant at Mott Community College and Flint
U of M. But, frankly I found the organization wanting and still do. That
doesn't mean I don't respect the folks there including the now dead Maceo
Dixon.
By the way with all on my plate I hope to see Angela Davis at Flint U of M
this week. I know she is a CPer. I've heard her speak several times. Now, 40
plus years ago. Man, am I getting old. I disagree with Ms. Davis on a number
of issues. But, I respect her still nonetheless.
So, the bottom line is: "Please don't confuse disagreement with this or that
for lack of respect."
For, shit sometimes I disagree with many of my own opinions held long ago.
And I do respect myself.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Loran Bailey (Redacted sender "rogerbailey81" for DMARC)"
<dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2016 8:19 PM
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Who is more relevant to us today? Marx or
Ella Baker?
It would be nice if everyone else here saw me as an equal instead of just reflexively insisting that everything I say is wrong just because I am the one saying it.
On 3/19/2016 12:12 PM, Carl Jarvis wrote:
Roger,
Much of my early years were spent in trying to "enlighten" others to
my way of thinking. I learned my lessons in the small tightly knit
local communist group to which my parents belonged. I learned to
"inform" people, and then to "correct" them if they did not grasp the
Truth that I imparted. I carried this fine technique into adult life,
and as a blind man, I embraced Kennith Jernigan because he also
displayed those same teaching tendencies. Only he was much better at
it than I. The fact is, I turned off as many people, maybe more, than
I turned on.
Today, as I ripen with old age, I am more interested in finding out
what others think. While I am still grounded in my own "right
thinking", I have come to accept that everyone has, or should have,
what they believe are "right thinking" convictions.
Since I've learned that others have the belief that they have correct
opinions, even though they run at opposites to mine, I no longer feel
that I am the teacher of truth everlasting. I am a participant in an
interesting conversation. As a participant, I am able to take in
what others say without the need to point out the error of their
thinking. I merely post my own thoughts on a given subject. For
example, Religion. I say I am an Agnostic. You have raised some good
points on the subject, which I can't for the life of me remember. But
some of what you say rubs off, while some of what you say, I dismiss.
I state that I believe Religion is at the bottom of many of our
problems. Some folks become enraged when they read my ramblings, and
they blast me with the "True Facts", and damn me to Hell. I have
learned that there is no way on God's Green Earth that I will change
their minds. If they were children in my classroom, I would stand
them in a corner for expressing such wrong thinking. But since we
are not in a classroom I do not see myself as a teacher. I am just
another fellow expressing my own thoughts.
I have great respect for you, Roger. You have much to share from your
years of education, formal and informal. But I know for sure that our
brains work differently. You operate on Facts, while I operate on
more of a "touchy feely" level. But I still see you, me and every
person on this list as equals.
Carl Jarvis
On 3/18/16, Roger Loran Bailey <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I suppose I do get a bit impatient at times. There is a certain
personality characteristic that I have always had. I have always been
very anxious to learn and to share what I have learned with others. From
my first day in the first grade I was very enthusiastically
pro-education. I expect that I would have started that earlier except
that I did not attend kindergarten. When I was in college I was on track
to be a high school biology teacher,, but there was some red baiting
that led me to switch majors. I still have always regarded myself as
both a student and a teacher, though, even if it is informally. So I
regard my role on this list as a teacher. I try to be a patient teacher,
but it really is hard at times. I find myself in the position of being a
teacher with recalcitrant, disrespectful and arrogant students who think
they know more about the teacher's subject than the teacher. That will
be extremely annoying to any teacher and I suppose I may let my
annoyance show through some times. I will admit that taking the role of
student is mostly less stressful. Since I am a volunteer for Bookshare I
am on the Bookshare volunteer list, for example. The discussion is about
the technical aspects of preparing books for addition to the Bookshare
collection. Most of the people there are a good deal more technically
knowledgeable than I am and so there is little that I can teach them. So
I take the role of student. They help me out when I need it and do not
belittle me and I of course, do not belittle them and act like I know
more about it than they do. I simply do not know more about it than they
do. Just recently, for example, I had a copyright question. I am now
working on a Russian published edition of What is to Be Done? by V.I.
Lenin and I did not see any copyright information on it anywhere, so I
described the problem and several people offered advice. It turned out
that their advice was wrong and I suspected it was wrong, but I did not
try to belittle them like I am belittled on this list. Finally one
person who knew where to look up the information found it and the
problem was resolved and I added another tidbit to my store of learning.
It is unfortunate, though, that when I switch roles from student to
teacher I face so much condescension. I will admit that that is very
frustrating.
On 3/17/2016 9:51 PM, Carl Jarvis wrote:
Sorry Roger, as much as I appreciate your posts, you do project a
"tone". Sometimes it sounds like the old professor who does believe
he has all the facts, and at other times it sounds impatient.
I keep going back to my thought that this list can be an open forum
for folks to post their opinions, seek information, debate with
others, all in an informal setting. Since I do post to my personal
blog, I am able to go back a few years and read what I was thinking at
the time. Some of it is pure drivel, and some of it makes no sense
whatsoever. But it is all done with the purpose of helping myself
clarify stuff I'm fuzzy on. This is as close as I will get to
commenting on your style. While I would prefer that you did not find
it necessary to sound like the old professor, and correct other folks
comments, I guess that is the way you are programmed.
Carl Jarvis
On 3/17/16, Roger Loran Bailey <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I am sorry that assuming that I am assuming that anyone who disagrees
with me on any subject is less knowledgeable than I is also a false
assumption. However, there are some areas that I do know and even though
I do know those subjects it really does seem that anyone who does not
understand those subjects or who does have a disagreement with me
assumes that I am the ignorant one. I am also sorry that I find that to
be very annoying. I mentioned that problem before. Try asking Dick how
he would feel about it if any one of us started lecturing him on
chemical engineering as if he was the one who did not know what he was
talking about.
On 3/15/2016 9:40 AM, S. Kashdan wrote:
Roger,
I am sorry, but assuming that people are less knowledgeable than you on
any
subject if they disagree with you is not rigorous thinking, and
certainly
not rigorous scientific thinking. It just may be that others are as
familiar
with Marx and even modern Marxist scholars, and still disagree with the
conclusions you and your socialist faction have drawn from reading
Marx's
various writings. After all, even Marxists of different tendencies
disagree
about how to interpret Marx, and which parts of his writings are
relevant
today, and which are not relevant any longer...
As far as I am concerned, the really important questions are related to
how
to create better social relationships and more social solidarity, in
order
to make some positive changes in the world today for all of us. And,
that
needs to involve criticizing the Marxist ideologists who have
contributed
to
the mess in the world today along with the non-marxist ideologists. And
it
means learning how to support each other in all sorts of social ways,
and
learning to help each other figure out things together rather than
turning
to authorities above us. As Ella Baker used to say: Strong people don't
need
strong leaders. For a little more about this woman who deserves all of
our
admiration, see an article below my name.
For justice and peace,
Sylvie
ELLA J. BAKER
Remember a life well lived
BY BARBARA RANSBY
http://www.progressive.org/mediaproject03/mprf503.html
Today marks the 100th anniversary of Ella Josephine Baker's birth.
Although
her name may be unknown to many, this remarkable woman was one of the
most
influential people in the crusade for racial justice in America.
An untiring voice for the dispossessed, a democrat and an egalitarian
in
word and deed, Baker was a true American hero.
For more than 50 years, she traveled the breadth of this country
organizing,
protesting and advocating for social justice. Her main concern was the
plight of blacks, whose rights, she argued, were the litmus test for
American democracy. But she was also concerned with the cause of labor,
the
poor, Latinos and women.
Over the course of her life, she worked alongside some of the most
well-known civil-rights leaders of the 20th century. They included
W.E.B.
DuBois, Thurgood Marshall and Martin Luther King, Jr.
But celebrity did not impress Baker. Instead, she placed emphasis on
grass-roots organizing and local leadership. Her own humble style is
part
of
the reason why her contributions and accomplishments are less known
than
those of many of her male counterparts.
In the 1930s, while living in Harlem, Baker was a leader of the
cooperative
movement and participated in demonstrations against lynching,
colonialism
and fascism.
In the 1940s, she blazed a trail through Ku Klux Klan territory,
recruiting
members for the NAACP and putting her own life at risk in the process.
In the 1950s, she divided her time between Atlanta and New York,
struggling
against police brutality and school segregation in the North, and for
basic
civil and human rights in the South. She was the first director of the
Southern Christian Leadership Conference.
In the 1960s she was mentor to a new generation of young freedom
fighters.
Her political proteges included Julian Bond, current leader of the
NAACP;
educator and author Bob Moses; Bernice Johnson Reagon, founder of the
musical group Sweet Honey in the Rock; Marian Wright Edelman of the
Children's Defense Fund; and Rep. Eleanor Holmes Norton, D-D.C. All of
these
individuals began their political careers in the ranks of an
organization
that Baker helped found in the spring of 1960, the Student Nonviolent
Coordinating Committee.
Instrumental organization
SNCC grew out of the 1960 lunch-counter desegregation sit-ins and was
instrumental in the 1961 freedom rides that broke the color bar on
interstate trains and buses. It was the organizational force behind
Freedom
Summer in 1964, which shuttled hundreds of Northern college students
into
the South to work on voter registration and education.
SNCC engaged in bold and daring confrontations with racism. Many of its
members were jailed and beaten, and some lost their lives. But they
helped
change the racial landscape of the nation. Baker was officially an
adult
advisor to SNCC, but she was much more. She garnered resources, mended
wounds (physical and emotional) and offered strategic insights. She
also
put
the inexperienced young organizers in touch with local activists
throughout
the region who advised, nurtured and supported them.
Her work with SNCC was the most fulfilling phase of Baker's long
political
life. But after the organization began to unravel in the late 1960s,
Baker
continued her work on other fronts.
Tireless activist
She opposed the war in Vietnam, supported the campaign for Puerto Rican
independence and lobbied against South African apartheid. She was a
relentless fighter on the side of the oppressed and downtrodden for
more
than a half century. The large and diverse crowd of notables and
unknowns
who attended her funeral in 1986 was testimony to this fact.
Baker never thought of herself as old, even as her hair grayed and her
once-flawless brown skin relented to the pull of time and gravity.
"Being young is a state of mind," she once told a friend, "and young
people
are the people who want change."
Baker wanted to change injustice, and she spent her life doing just
that.
It
kept her young. Her youthful life is one well worth remembering.
Barbara Ransby, author of Ella Baker and the Black Freedom Movement,
won
the
Joan Kelly Memorial Prize from the Association of American Historians
for
the best women's history book in 2003.
