I heard that joke over and over when I was in college. I think I heard
it about once a week and it was usually told when a professor said
something especially stupid. BS stands for bull shit; MS stands for more
of the same; PhD stands for piled higher and deeper. Anyway, I don't
think asking someone to prove the unprovable is childish. As I have
said, every time Mustafa fails to provide the evidence I ask for and
every time he commits the same logical fallacies over and over he
validates my position. Furthermore, I know this is unlikely, but just
maybe some time he will understand what I am trying to point out to him
and abandon his religion. Yes, this is extremely unlikely, but it has
happened. As you have explained it you are an example. Ask questions.
When they are unanswerable in the framework in which you confine
yourself you have to go outside that framework and when you go outside
that framework you just might see how confining and invalid it really is.
On 9/6/2017 9:48 PM, Carl Jarvis wrote:
The elderly woman hobbled into her church down in Webb City, Missouri,
eager to share her news.
But first she had a question for Pastor Billie Jo.
"I been pickin' crops seven days a week in order to keep my grandson
in college. Now he sends me a telegram saying he not only received
his BS, but his MS, and he's about to be awarded his PHD. I want to
tell him just how proud I am of him, but I need to know what he means
by BS, MS and PHD."
"well now," the old pastor said as he scratched his head thoughtfully,
"We all know what that BS stands for. Well, MS means More of the
same. And that PHD tells us it's Piled High and Deep".
And that is where we find ourselves in our efforts to discuss
something that, for all human ability to prove or disprove, does not
exist.
I will say this. The "logic" used by Mostafa is a great part of the
same "logic" that drove me from the Christian Church.
We are so engrossed in trying to prove our belief, that we are now
going around the same circle for the umpteenth time.
Challenging one another to prove an unprovable point is pure
childishness. We all, each and everyone of us, have become so intent
on showing the other fellow that our position is right, that we get
drawn off track. For example, I believe, and can prove it, that we
are faced by an out of control Corporate American Empire. No
Invisible Allah or bashful God have stepped in to halt the horrors
being committed around Planet Earth, while this Empire on Steroids
causes destruction and death and maiming with immunity. Think of what
a silly goosey loosey thought process would lead us to believe that an
All Mighty Invisible Being created all of this life, and then turned
it over and sits by, watching our stupid, selfish, out of control
destruction of the entire planet. Frankly, I refuse to be controlled
by a Being who cannot even write his own name, but instead has to have
Humans write it for Him, and is so mean spirited that He will not lift
a hand to make right that which He obviously did wrong. Simply put,
He, if indeed there is a He, did a real half ass job here on Earth. I
hope He did better on other planets. It is very evident that if He
does exist, He is not planning to lift a finger to help mop up the
mess. He even refuses to get rid of the Evil One, allowing this other
invisible being to roam about causing unbelievable trouble.
Carl Jarvis
On 9/6/17, Roger Loran Bailey <rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx> wrote:
Carl, an agnostic is a kind of atheist, an atheist who is committing a
certain logical fallacy. So I am willing to accept you into the realm of
atheism. Anyway, though, I notice an interesting irony. Mustafa claims
to know exactly why the universe exists. The only defense he has for his
contention is a series of logical fallacies and he offers absolutely no
evidence. Yet he claims that his contention is right and that all other
positions that might contradict it are wrong. On the other hand, I, as
an atheist, admit that I don't know why the universe exists. I offer no
assertion about why it exists because I have no evidence for any
hypothesis that would explain it. There may be some hypotheses, but they
only remain hypotheses until there is evidence to back them up. I also
point out that if any of these hypotheses are shown to be true then they
will just open more questions and so the actual reason for the existence
of the universe will still remain unknown. I profess ignorance. Yet
Mustafa has the nerve to call me, as an atheist, conceited! I think that
in the past he has also called me arrogant. I profess humble ignorance
while he professes to have the ultimate answer to why the universe
exists and he has the nerve to call me arrogant!
On 9/6/2017 12:33 PM, Carl Jarvis wrote:
Bob writes: "As I stated earlier, the problem has really nothing to do
with scientific substantiation or rational scrutiny. It really
has much to do with the tremendous conceit which dominates Atheist's
way of thinking."
Bob,
I believe that you have just defined "Closed Mind" for us.
You are simply setting up Straw Men and inviting us to whale away at
them. Of course you must know that Agnostics are as different, one
from another, than are Muslims, or Jews, or Germans, or
Martians...just because they are all little green men does not mean
that they're the same.
I chuckle at you clambering up onto your soap box and in your
"intrinsically superior" manner, declaring Roger and myself to be
"intrinsically superior". And by the way, I do believe that Roger is
an Atheist, and I am the Agnostic...just to be factual.
Anyway, I'll keep this short, so as to allow you to get on with your
trip through the narrow tunnel of Life that you have allowed yourself
to be confined to.
You, Mostafa, are a slave, and I actually feel sorry for you because
you are the most pitiable of all slaves. Your Master is some
invisible make believe force that has your mind in a vice grip, afraid
of even allowing reason to enter, less you end up in some eternal
Hell. I was once there, too, believing that if I dared to disagree
with God, He, in His eternal Love, would crush me like an ant under
foot. But I'm sure you don't think of yourself as being afraid to use
your mind. You are feeling superior to me because your Master has
told you to believe that is the truth. Talk about circular thinking!
Finally, back to the questions. What if you do ring the bell on my
door and you can hear it ring, but you have no language to express the
fact that you can hear it? And then how do you communicate this
information to your deaf friend? Who did "invent" language? Who
decided what words Allah really said...or God? Who was there when He
created the heavens and the earth? Who can attest to those facts?
Allah? God? Satan? or maybe some manipulating fellow made it all up
so he could control those people around him? And it's still working
pretty well today.
Carl Jarvis PS. I am nothing like you imagine, from reading these
emails. These words are just that, words. As are you and your words.
Let's cut the crap and admit that we are brothers under the same
imperfect Sun, in the same imperfect Universe.
Carl
On 9/6/17, Bob <ebob824@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
To both of you again, you aren't able to recognise facts as they are.
Despite what argument you adhere, your egocentrism won't ever be
dissolved.
Carl, it is factual that Allah created def people. How do we communicate
with them? Well, we simply use sign language. So, speech isn't the only
manner by which people communicate. But, if sound wasn't created, would
there still be silence? As for mister Roger, you are getting us into a
vicious cycle. If we kept asking, who created the creator and who
created
the one that created the creator, our crisis will basically exasperate.
We
won't ever come to a logical conclusion if we think that way. As I
stated
earlier, the problem has really nothing to do with scientific
substantiation
or rational scrutiny. It really has much to do with the tremendous
conceit
which dominates Atheist's way of thinking. They simply perceive they
are
intrinsically superior to submit to a supreme authority. Their imperious
temperament prevents them from devoting to humility. They unfortunately
are
influenced with insufferably overbearing pride. The problem complicates
when we base our notion on mere intuition. The phenomenon of disbelief
dominates western culture because it bases its major factors on corporal
principles. I have an idea, if someone is interested to properly ponder,
I
urge you to try the following experiment. I want you to carefully look
for
something around you which hasn't been made by a maker. If we accept,
that
each and every element in this world has been made, we logically must
take
on the following conclusion. What is bigger has to rationally be made.
This
universe is perfectly rarified, it is thoroughly organised. Each and
every
constituent is committed to do its precise job without any disruption.
Have
you ever saw the moon missing one of its phases? Has any of the
celestial
bodies intercepted with its counterpart? They float in concert across
the
space, they operate in perfect harmony. Could this be merely
spontaneous?
Who taught these objects to be harmonious as such? As for the tree which
falls in the desert, would it still make a sound even though there is no
someone to hear it? If I came to your home while no one was there and
kept
stroking the button of the bell, would it still produce a sound? Would
it
still ring? It surely would unless you have a technical trouble such
electricity cut or simply the device of the bell is just spifflicated,
it
doesn't work. Similarly, if I came to your home and no one was there and
kept knocking the door, would it make a sound? If a massive rock
collided
with the door of an empty place, would that collision produce any noise?
If
someone called your phone while no one was in the house, would it still
ring? Of course it would. This is why people tend to check their
answering
machines as soon as they get home. Please, do not attempt to wickedly
deceive us and, respect our intellectual competency. This is how
Godlessness
is intemperately fallacious and preposterous. I urge people to be more
consistent in the thoughts they attempt to develop. I welcome any
further
discussion. Simultaneously, I despise and dispose any rhetoric of
contempt,
derision or sarcasm. Cordially, Bob
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