I will dispute your contention that it is a fact that allah created deaf
people. If you wish to convince me that that contention is a fact then
please tell me how you know it to be a fact and please provide an answer
that has something to do with it being true. So far you have not backed
up your contentions with anything that has to do with it being true. As
for the question of what created the creator and what created that
creator, of course that would go on forever. However, it is a reasonable
question given your contention that anything that exists is created and
that everything that is created must have a creator. To ask endlessly
what created the creator and what created that creator illustrates the
absurdity of using the premise that everything that exists must have a
creator. That is, at some point you have to just admit that you don't
know. If you don't know then not knowing does not equal knowing that the
answer is supernatural. Not knowing only equals not knowing. Next you
fall into the fallacy of the anthropic principle again. The universe
behaves the way it behaves because that is the nature of the universe.
If there are an infinite number of universes then of course we are going
to be in the one that allows life to exist. Also if there are an
infinite number of universes there are other things that exist in each
of them that cannot exist in this one and so you would have to declare
that this indicates a special creation for each of them. But we do not
know that there are an infinite number of universes. We have only this
one to observe and we can only observe it as it is. The anthropic
principle that you are falling back on would have you claim that it is
remarkable that a depression in the ground just happens to fit perfectly
the shape of the water in it that makes up a puddle. Or you might claim
that the fact that that the puddle of water conforms so precisely to the
shape of the depression that it shows conscious planning. It does not.
That is simply how the universe works. The way the universe is happens
to be the way the universe is and if we pick out particular parts of it
like the puddle of water we may be able to explain why that particular
phenomenon works in the context of the characteristics of the rest of
the universe and we may be able to explain some of that context in the
greater context, but at some point we have to admit that we don't know
why the universe behaves in the way the universe behaves. It is a
question to be found out. It is not a question to be answered by decree.
If there is a creator we must look for the evidence of it. That is not
the same as imposing interpretations of reality on reality in order to
maintain claims about reality. That is the logical fallacy of
presupposing the conclusion in order to reach the conclusion. Instead,
we have to look for answers and accept whatever answers we find. If that
leads us to a creator then so be it. But so far there is no evidence
whatsoever that tends to lead us to a creator.. Look for it. Don't just
declare it.
On 9/6/2017 10:46 AM, Bob wrote:
To both of you again, you aren't able to recognise facts as they are. Despite what argument you adhere, your egocentrism won't ever be dissolved. Carl, it is factual that Allah created def people. How do we communicate with them? Well, we simply use sign language. So, speech isn't the only manner by which people communicate. But, if sound wasn't created, would there still be silence? As for mister Roger, you are getting us into a vicious cycle. If we kept asking, who created the creator and who created the one that created the creator, our crisis will basically exasperate. We won't ever come to a logical conclusion if we think that way. As I stated earlier, the problem has really nothing to do with scientific substantiation or rational scrutiny. It really has much to do with the tremendous conceit which dominates Atheist's way of thinking. They simply perceive they are intrinsically superior to submit to a supreme authority. Their imperious temperament prevents them from devoting to humility. They unfortunately are influenced with insufferably overbearing pride. The problem complicates when we base our notion on mere intuition. The phenomenon of disbelief dominates western culture because it bases its major factors on corporal principles. I have an idea, if someone is interested to properly ponder, I urge you to try the following experiment. I want you to carefully look for something around you which hasn't been made by a maker. If we accept, that each and every element in this world has been made, we logically must take on the following conclusion. What is bigger has to rationally be made. This universe is perfectly rarified, it is thoroughly organised. Each and every constituent is committed to do its precise job without any disruption. Have you ever saw the moon missing one of its phases? Has any of the celestial bodies intercepted with its counterpart? They float in concert across the space, they operate in perfect harmony. Could this be merely spontaneous? Who taught these objects to be harmonious as such? As for the tree which falls in the desert, would it still make a sound even though there is no someone to hear it? If I came to your home while no one was there and kept stroking the button of the bell, would it still produce a sound? Would it still ring? It surely would unless you have a technical trouble such electricity cut or simply the device of the bell is just spifflicated, it doesn't work. Similarly, if I came to your home and no one was there and kept knocking the door, would it make a sound? If a massive rock collided with the door of an empty place, would that collision produce any noise? If someone called your phone while no one was in the house, would it still ring? Of course it would. This is why people tend to check their answering machines as soon as they get home. Please, do not attempt to wickedly deceive us and, respect our intellectual competency. This is how Godlessness is intemperately fallacious and preposterous. I urge people to be more consistent in the thoughts they attempt to develop. I welcome any further discussion. Simultaneously, I despise and dispose any rhetoric of contempt, derision or sarcasm. Cordially, Bob
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