I have never bothered to look into the Unitarians very closely even
though I have worked with them in anti-war groups, but I remember a
local radio talk show once where the current pastor of the Unitarian
church had been invited as a guest. It seems that every so often they
elect their pastor from among their congregation. The talk show host was
astounded to find out that the pastor described himself as an atheist.
The pastor went on to talk about participating in the annual distance
run here. He said that when the benediction was delivered he turned up
his iPod so that he wouldn't hear it. After he left the show the host
said in an astounded sounding voice that he had always assumed that the
Unitarians were just a liberal Christian denomination because all the
Unitarians he had ever known were liberals. Then he added, but
apparently not. By the way, the main anti-war group in this area now is
Patriots for Peace and it is nearly identical with the congregation of
the Unitarian church. They seem to run it in a rather sectarian manner
and try to freeze out any other peace groups. They are adamant about
emphasizing that patriot part of their name. That seems to have
something to do with their tendency to freeze out everyone else. They
want to make it clear to everyone that being against war does not make
you unpatriotic and they want to exclude anyone they perceive as
unpatriotic.
On 11/25/2015 1:54 PM, Miriam Vieni wrote:
Sylvie,
That church does have a very liberal tradition and I know that here on Long
Island, there's a Unitarian church that has had a lot of good speakers over
the years. When I attended social work school at the U of Michigan, Wilbur
Cohen and his wife, Pat, were professors there. He was involved in writing
the Social Security legislation in 1935. Anyway, I remember that they were
members of the Unitarian church in Ann Arbor. And yet, when my daughter went
to Earlham College, a Quaker college in Indiana, and she attended a
Unitarian program there because I told her it was similar to Ethical
Culture, she discovered that, that particular Unitarian church was
evangelical. Of course, the Unitarians are different from Ethical Culture
which is, or was, a non theistic humanist religion. It has insisted on being
defined as a religion, probably because it has Sunday morning programs and
its leaders are considered to be clergymen. It was founded by someone
trained to be a reformed rabbi, who rebelled against everything in the
Jewish religion except its ethical values and founded a dissident religion
based on his beliefs. Interestingly, New York State categorizes it as a
Protestant sect which is truly insane. But the Universalist Unitarians, no
matter how liberal they are, are truly Christians.
Miriam
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of S. Kashdan
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 11:56 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Quakers respond to terrorism
Hi Carl and all,
I have a friend who is in the Unitarian-Universalist church. Several years
ago she invited me to join too. I told her that I am a secular person who
doesn't believe in gods. I said that I believe in human beings' capacity to
be decent and respectful and even loving to each other, given the
opportunity. Her response was, "Well you don't have to believe in anything
to join. You just have to want to be sociable."
We're still friends, and I still have not joined. But, I do sometimes go to
events they have.
For justice and peace,
Sylvie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Jarvis" <carjar82@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 7:56 AM
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Quakers respond to terrorism
Thanks. Good information. As you describe it, the Quakers come
closest to an organization I could be involved with. As a young man,
I had a good opinion of the Quakers. Then along came Richard
Millhouse Nixon. If I'd had any real interest in the Quakers, Nixon
put a damper on it.
Maybe, when I get caught up and finished with my dance with at least
three doctors, I'll look deeper at them. But I know that in my
present state of mind, I'll not be joining any organized group no
matter how I might embrace some of their philosophy. Actually, my
final fling with organized religion was with the University Unitarian
Church, in Seattle. But I went for the various informative lectures,
not for any Spiritual guidance.
Finally, I admit that I have never let ignorance get in the way of
shooting off my big mouth. Hopefully no one swallows what I say
without checking it out.
Carl Jarvis
On 11/25/15, Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
If I remember correctly, their concept is that God dwells within the self.
Aside from Evangelical Quakers, of whom Richard Nixon was one and who were
a
whole different kettle of fish, the Quakers do not pray to an "all seeing
God", as you phrase it. Quaker worship services, or meetings, are silent,
aside for when a member is feel moved to speak. They are democratic
institutions without a clergyman. Decisions are made by concensus. There
is,
I think, a governing body that makes administrative decisions. The Quakers
do not fight in any war, no matter how just their countrymen believe it to
be. And the Friends Service Committee provides assistance to people
throughout the world.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Carl Jarvis
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 12:31 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Quakers respond to terrorism
Hats off to the Quakers! Reaching deep inside themselves to touch the
love
for their fellow Man. Can they reach just a bit deeper and realize this
basic instinct comes from their own understanding of who they are, rather
than needing some make-believe All Knowing Father, to tell them.
Carl Jarvis
On 11/24/15, Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Quakers respond to terrorismtraumatised.
As Parliament prepares to debate next steps in Syria, Quakers in
Britain have made this statement:
Detail from old Quaker poster
The attacks in Paris on 13 November were deeply shocking and our
hearts continue to go out to those killed, injured, bereaved and
It is human nature that the closer suffering comes to us, the moretraumatised.
acutely we feel the pain and grief. But that experience should
sensitise us to the suffering caused repeatedly by acts of war and
violent crime in more distant places, including Beirut, Sinai, Bamako
and Aleppo. It should strengthen our determination to build a safer
world together.
Terrorism is a deliberate attempt to provoke fear, hatred, division
and a state of war. War - especially war with the West - is what
ISIS/Daesh wants.
It confirms the image they project of the West as a colonialist
'crusader'
power, which acts with impunity to impose its will overseas and
especially against Muslims.
The military actions of Western nations recruit more people to the
cause than they kill. Every bomb dropped is a recruitment poster for
ISIS, a rallying point for the young, vulnerable and alienated. And
every bomb dropped on Syrian cities drives yet more people to flee and
seek refuge in safer countries.
Our political leaders seem determined that Britain should look strong
on the world stage. Quakers in Britain believe our country should act
with wisdom and far-sighted courage. A wisdom that rises above the
temptation to respond to every problem with military might. A wisdom
that looks back at our failures in Libya and Iraq and Afghanistan and
learns from experience. The courage - and strength - to think through
the likely consequences of actions to find a long term, lasting
solution.
The courageous response of ordinary people who refuse to give up their
way of life and refuse to be driven by fear is one that politicians
could learn from.
[QUOTE-START]
The courageous response of ordinary people who refuse to give up their
way of life and refuse to be driven by fear is one that politicians
could learn from.
- Quakers in Britain
[QUOTE-END]
Although there are no quick or easy answers, there are things we can
do, all of us together, which will defeat the terrorists more
assuredly than military action. Quakers in Britain commit to playing
our part in these actions.
We can quieten ourselves and listen to the truth from deep within us
that speaks of love, mutual respect, humanity and peace.
We can and will refuse to be divided. By bridge-building among faiths
and within our local communities we can challenge and rise above the
ideologies of hate and actively love our neighbour.
By welcoming refugees, we can not only meet the acute needs of those
individuals but also undercut the narrative of those who seek to
create fear and mistrust.
And we can ask our political leaders to:
. Treat terrorist acts as crimes, not acts of war
. Stop arming any of the parties fighting in Syria
. Observe international law and apply it equally to all parties
. Build cooperation among nations, strengthening those international
institutions which contribute to peace
. Export peace rather than war, so that we can create the conditions
the world needs to address its most serious problems, including
climate change.
The statement concludes with this extract from a statement made by
Quakers in Britain in 1943 (Quaker faith & practice 24.09):
"True peace cannot be dictated, it can only be built in co-operation
between all peoples. None of us, no nation, no citizen, is free from
some responsibility for this."
Quakers respond to terrorism
As Parliament prepares to debate next steps in Syria, Quakers in
Britain have made this statement:
Detail from old Quaker poster
The attacks in Paris on 13 November were deeply shocking and our
hearts continue to go out to those killed, injured, bereaved and
It is human nature that the closer suffering comes to us, the more
acutely we feel the pain and grief. But that experience should
sensitise us to the suffering caused repeatedly by acts of war and
violent crime in more distant places, including Beirut, Sinai, Bamako
and Aleppo. It should strengthen our determination to build a safer
world together.
Terrorism is a deliberate attempt to provoke fear, hatred, division
and a state of war. War - especially war with the West - is what
ISIS/Daesh wants.
It confirms the image they project of the West as a colonialist
'crusader'
power, which acts with impunity to impose its will overseas and
especially against Muslims.
The military actions of Western nations recruit more people to the
cause than they kill. Every bomb dropped is a recruitment poster for
ISIS, a rallying point for the young, vulnerable and alienated. And
every bomb dropped on Syrian cities drives yet more people to flee and
seek refuge in safer countries.
Our political leaders seem determined that Britain should look strong
on the world stage. Quakers in Britain believe our country should act
with wisdom and far-sighted courage. A wisdom that rises above the
temptation to respond to every problem with military might. A wisdom
that looks back at our failures in Libya and Iraq and Afghanistan and
learns from experience. The courage - and strength - to think through
the likely consequences of actions to find a long term, lasting
solution.
The courageous response of ordinary people who refuse to give up their
way of life and refuse to be driven by fear is one that politicians
could learn from.
The courageous response of ordinary people who refuse to give up their
way of life and refuse to be driven by fear is one that politicians
could learn from.
- Quakers in Britain
Although there are no quick or easy answers, there are things we can
do, all of us together, which will defeat the terrorists more
assuredly than military action. Quakers in Britain commit to playing
our part in these actions.
We can quieten ourselves and listen to the truth from deep within us
that speaks of love, mutual respect, humanity and peace.
We can and will refuse to be divided. By bridge-building among faiths
and within our local communities we can challenge and rise above the
ideologies of hate and actively love our neighbour.
By welcoming refugees, we can not only meet the acute needs of those
individuals but also undercut the narrative of those who seek to
create fear and mistrust.
And we can ask our political leaders to:
Treat terrorist acts as crimes, not acts of war Stop arming any of the
parties fighting in Syria Observe international law and apply it
equally to all parties Build cooperation among nations, strengthening
those international institutions which contribute to peace Export
peace rather than war, so that we can create the conditions the world
needs to address its most serious problems, including climate change.
The statement concludes with this extract from a statement made by
Quakers in Britain in 1943 (Quaker faith & practice 24.09):
"True peace cannot be dictated, it can only be built in co-operation
between all peoples. None of us, no nation, no citizen, is free from
some responsibility for this."