My friends Mary, Roger, Carl and the rest of the good people on this list. I am
so sorry, I haven't got the chance to interact with your threads. I may just
ask you to change the subject field to what is relevant to your subject. I want
to comment but, I do not want to mistakenly utter fiery remarks. Well, religion
has been constantly a subject of perfervid conflict in the western world.
Subsequent to medieval ages, modernised western statehood disapproved religious
introspection. They claim it majorly opposes modern scientific development. Is
this absolutely accurate and necessarily applicable for all religions? If so,
where has the tremendous contribution of the Muslim scholar, jurist and
philosopher Avicenna came from? To say that religion in general spurns modern
scientific development is inevitably incorrect. In the peak of orthodox Islamic
revivalism, Muslims had profound contribution to various fields of scholarship.
They contributed to Medicine, Mathematics, Physiology, Philosophy and Theology.
I keenly urge subscribers to this list to deeply study Muslim scholarly
contribution in modern day spain, formerly known as the state of Andalusia.
Religion never contradicted with relentless scientific development according to
historical accounts, particularly of the ninth century. That was, when Europe
lived in complete darkness and Islamic scientific contribution flowed
munificently and quenched Europe's thirst to knowledge. However, today, the
situation has been perfectly reversed. Contributors became consumers and vice
versa. The primal reason of our scandalously civil retardation is our perpetual
state of indolence. Muslims simply do not want to work. I lived for a while in
modern day Saudi. They're too rich but many of them, are just too lazy to get
off the bed until it's nearly midday. Here in Egypt, despite our relentlessly
exacerbating economic downfall and our enormous poverty, Muslims constantly
seek any valid or invalid excuse to arrive late at work, leave early or just
find any excuse to skive. Is this the expected disposition of someone who wants
to shine and thrive? Half of the year here is taken off work. As the Muslim
righteous and immensely just Caliph, Omar Ibn-Elkhattab said once to someone
who was lazy to work,"Sky doesn't rain gold nor silver, go and find some work
to do". This is the only solution for us to rise again. This is the only
solution for us to retain our eminent position, this is our only solution to
retain our lost dignity and be respected once again.
Bob Evans
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Loran Bailey (Redacted sender "rogerbailey81" for DMARC)
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ; MARY CONVY
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2017 2:40 AM
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Jesus, Christmas and Donald Trump for
evangelists
The Catholic church has always proclaimed itself to be for social justice
while at the same time sending out missionaries to act as agents for
imperialism, while at the same time participating in the destruction of entire
cultures and the suppression of even their languages. The Catholic Church has
always claimed to be on the side of social justice while at the same time
burning heretics, suppressing scientific advance, suppressing the struggle for
the rights of women and more. The Catholic Church is very similar to other
religions in this way. I consider religion to be a great evil. Throughout all
of history every time humanity has advanced, whether it be socially,
economically, scientifically or otherwise, religion has always without
exception, been there to deny, denounce and obstruct. It is hard to imagine
just how far humanity might have gotten without religion standing in the way.
On 10/10/2017 5:36 PM, MARY CONVY wrote:
Gee Marion, you sound almost disappointed that the Catholic Church is
proclaiming social consciousness. And they always have. This guy in a bit
more of a straight line. But I can't think of any other world wide institution
that does as good a job.
Now wait. Yes I know, there are a lot of screw ups. But there are among
any group, humanists included. And to say you remember Catholics affected by
church teachings?! Again, in any group some individuals can be treated, or
interpret teachings in a harmful way. That's life. Filled with flawed humans.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> on behalf of Miriam Vieni
<miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2017 1:13 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Jesus, Christmas and Donald Trump for
evangelists
The decision related to medical insurance plans was that contraception is
no longer being required to cover contraception. Right now, this administration
is making more moves in that direction. If you can go to Walmart and fill a
prescription for a contraceptive pill for $4, you first need to acquire that
prescription from a physician. If you don’t have the funds to pay for the
medical appointment and your insurance won’t cover it, you won’t be able to
take a prescription anywhere to be filled. If you’re on Medicaid and Medicaid
doesn’t cover contraception, then you may not be able to afford contraception.
Because I am 80 years old, I clearly remember a time when it was difficult for
people to acquire effective contraception. I remember when it was almost
impossible for an unmarried woman to do so. I also clearly remember what life
was like for us before abortion was legalized. For me, the issue isn’t just an
abstract matter. I can tell stories about real people whose lives were
profoundly affected by the laws back then.
There’s a difference between the Catholic Church and the Religious Right
and at the moment, because of the particular Pope who heads the Church, the
Catholic Church has made much more liberal pronouncements than is usually the
case. And, of course, the Church, like every other institution, includes people
with a variety of views on the subject of birth control and abortion. But I
also remember how some very close friends of mine who were Catholic, were
affected by the Church’s teachings.
Miriam
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of MARY CONVY
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2017 11:42 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Jesus, Christmas and Donald Trump for
evangelists
Miriam,
Anyone can walk into Walmart and purchase Plan B birth control for $4
without a prescription. No script needed for spermicides. Or condoms. Get a
script and you can purchase the pill for $4.00 at Walmart. I don't see birth
control is restricted.
The Right to Life group is specialized but the Catholic Church is against
capital punishment, war, capitalism, and consumerism.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> on behalf of Miriam Vieni
<miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, October 9, 2017 7:20 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Jesus, Christmas and Donald Trump for
evangelists
I overstated, but yes, I knew that not everyone in the organization
protests in front of clinics and not everyone who opposes abortion, is a member
of the organization. However, there are certainly political attempts to
restrict birth control right now, and there have been, for the past several
years. The Supreme Court supported one of them in a recent decision. I also
find it ironic that people who are concerned about the lives of unborn babies,
take no position on capital punishment. And I would also like to add that
sometimes, what is written down as official policy, may not be actual policy.
Miriam
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of MARY CONVY
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2017 6:53 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Jesus, Christmas and Donald Trump for
evangelists
Well Miriam, I should have added that any one or any group (since we are
social creatures) can misuse any social institution. But I hold to account the
flawed people and not the core of the world's religions, as I posted ten common
core beliefs in all religions.
Your bring up Right to Life people and say the quote normally unquote
protest clinics and confront women. Please read the following:
National Right to Life Committee
The National Right to Life Committee (NRLC) is a nonprofit organization
that seeks to end legalized Abortion in the United States. Founded in 1973,
following the U.S. Supreme Court's decision in Roe v. Wade, 410 U.S. 113, 93 S.
Ct. 705, 35 L. Ed. 2d 147 (1973), which held that women had a constitutional
right to abortion, the NRLC has become the leading antiabortion organization in
the United States. It has more than 7 million members, with 3,000 local
chapters and 50 state affiliates. It is headquartered in Washington, D.C., and
has an annual budget of more than $9 million. The National Right to Life News,
a biweekly newsletter, has a circulation of 135,000.
From its inception, the NRLC has sought the passage of a constitutional
amendment banning abortion. Though this effort has not been successful, the
NRLC has played an important role in state and federal legislation regulating
and restricting abortion, and has been instrumental in restricting government
funding of abortions to poor women. The NRLC has a Political Action Committee
that endorses and campaigns for candidates who support its agenda, which
includes opposition to some forms of Birth Control as well as
physician-assisted suicide. The committee states that it does not take a
position on issues such as contraception, sex education, Capital Punishment,
and national defense.
So Miriam, you will note there are seven million members of the national
life organization. I would contend they all do not normally, as you said,
protest at clinics. I would guess a very small percentage does and then the
far radical groups are even a smaller number. This is not to take a position
on the organization itself but to illustrate our reality is based on many of
our biases. Note they also object to SOME forms of birth control, not all.
Would you have guessed that? It takes no position on sex education, capital
punishment or national defense. Bet you wouldn't have thought that either.
Our society is way too anxious to have an us v. them, all or nothing, very
bellicose dialog. That will be our down fall. Both political parties have
taken their corners to use a boxing analogy and has left the gaping middle ring
for a Trump to raise his arm in victory. I read recently an article by a
leader of the DNC who proclaimed, if you don't believe in abortion we don't
want you in our party. And over the years, indeed, much to their detriment,
the Democrats have lost the conservative on some issue but generally very
socially liberal Catholic who helped JFK win office. We have to start
embracing diversity within our own groups, true diversity in thought and ideas,
not only race or religion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> on behalf of Miriam Vieni
<miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, October 9, 2017 4:01 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Jesus, Christmas and Donald Trump for
evangelists
Mary,
Yes, that’s true. But it isn’t just one individual. The novel follows one
individual, but it also talks about a real group called, “The Army of God”,
and members of this group have, in fact, murdered abortion providers. They do
so in the belief that they are saving the lives of unborn babies. The people
who belong to “Right To Life” groups are usually Evangelical Christians and
very conservative Catholics and normally, they protest in front of clinics
where abortions are performed and they attempt to approach individual women who
are about to enter the clinics and try to convince them not to do so. But in
these groups, there are some even more extreme people who believe that killing
doctors who provide abortions, is justified. Every religion has extreme sects
and in each of these are even more extreme fringe groups, and additionally,
there are individuals in every religion who are mentally ill and whose illness
causes them to misconstrue religious teaching. The character in the book I’m
reading, does have emotional problems which caused him to be attracted to the
people who advocated killing abortion providers. But in reality, when one tries
to speak objectively about these issues, it becomes very difficult to separate
out religious faith from pathology in some cases. Let me hasten to tell you
something about me because you are new to this list and don’t know me. I’m a
retired social worker and when I attended social work school a very long time
ago, I did have to learn a good deal about psychology and human behavior. I
suppose that the other thing you should know about me is that my background is
Jewish, but I’m a secular person and the most accurate description of my
personal beliefs of philosophy would be “secular humanism”. But that’s my own
personal philosophy and I recognize that people experience reality in a variety
of ways.
Miriam
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of MARY CONVY
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2017 3:31 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Jesus, Christmas and Donald Trump for
evangelists
Miriam,
Any social institution can be mis-used by any one of the millions of flawed
humans that follow it. In this case the murderer took the religious principal
of holding sacred life and polluted it with his own mental instability.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> on behalf of Miriam Vieni
<miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, October 9, 2017 12:14 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Jesus, Christmas and Donald Trump for
evangelists
I'm reading a really long, ponderous novel by Joyce Carol Oates called A
Book Of Martyrs. Well, Joyce Carol Oates tends to write in a ponderous manner.
But if one can manage to get through it, the book has a lot to say. It's about
the assassination of a doctor who works in women's centers in the mid west and
who, among other medical services, provides abortions. The book describes the
man who murdered the doctor and the man's family, including their religious
beliefs, psychological motivations, and socio-economic status. It also
describes the doctor, his family, and the details of their lives and beliefs.
This is really a picture of the great divide in our society, in terms of
educational status and cultural identity and although it has something to do
with social class, it is not related to the way in which people on this list
and in typical political discourse, refer to class. There really seems to be no
meeting ground because the basic assumptions of these two groups are so
different. But in relation to our discussion about folks feeling so sure that
they are right while people with the opposite view are wrong, in the story, the
man who is convinced that killing an abortion provider is what Jesus wants him
to do, has no concern as to what the consequences of his act will be for his
wife and children. On the other side of the coin, the doctor who performs
abortions, is aware that his life is in danger. Other abortion providers have
been killed. His wife is begging him to stop doing this work because she's
afraid that he, too, will be killed and he has already provided this service
for many years. But he feels that his skills are badly needed and that the time
has not yet arrived for him to stop. In other words, he too, is being called to
do what he does and he does not consider the consequences to his wife and
children. In the end, both men die and their families are permanently damaged.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Carl Jarvis
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2017 11:11 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: "Undisclosed-Recipient:,"@freelists.org
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Jesus, Christmas and Donald Trump for
evangelists
There is nothing so futile as an exercise in futility.
And once again we prove it. There are two hard and true facts in any
discussion of this nature. 1. I am right!
2. Everyone else is wrong!
Each of us, regardless of our basic Beliefs, become a Missionary, setting
out to demonstrate the "rightnous" of our Belief, and the "wrongness" of
everyone else. Sometimes we are gentle in our attack on everyone else, and
sometimes we become rather nasty. But always it is from the position of each
of us being Right, and everyone else, Wrong!
And when we are not defending our Belief, by attacking all others, we are
wondering why people can't seem to get along.
Now I'm not a Believer any longer. My reason for leaving the Faith was due
to this very demonstration. I awoke from a deep dream one morning and asked
myself, "Self! What sort of Almighty Creator would allow Humans to gather in
little self righteous groups and spend thousands of years fighting each other?
But that's me, and I came to my present place in thought in my own way and
in my own time. To my simple mind, that is the only way each of us will
resolve this discussion. And then it will not matter what others believe, just
so long as they do not believe that they are obligated to kill me if I do not
believe as they do.
Carl Jarvis
On 10/8/17, Bob <ebob824@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Hello. This is Bob Evans. I'm the author of the editorial attached below.
> Please, read, fathom and if you wish, interact.
>
> Bob Evans
>
> ______
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
