I remember during the government shutdown in, was it, 2012?, on the BARD Talk
list. There were list members who explained that the Republicans were just
trying to help everyone by cutting down on costs and getting rid of the
Affordable Care Act. They believed what they were saying. The objective facts
were different from what they believed. We now see George Orwell's
"doublespeak" in full flower with the current administration's asserting that
there are such things as, "alternative facts".
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Frank Ventura
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2017 6:27 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: On the Fight Against Trump
Miriam, sometimes it comes down to confirmation bais. What that means is that
two people can look at the exact same set of facts and weigh those facts
differently to confirm (in their mind) their own predisposed bias. Like I
alluded to, outside of Blind-democracy, I am mostly on mainstream forums and
try to keep my own leftist biases honest by reading what others have to say.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Miriam Vieni
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2017 4:37 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: On the Fight Against Trump
I remember having this discussion with Ted when he was still on the list. He,
and I think, Frank, are talking about the alternative realities of other
people, the realities that you are defining as fairy tales. Ted's contention
was that these, "alternative facts", should have equal weight. In other words,
truth is relative. I was insisting that people may have different beliefs, but
there's only one set of facts. We get tangled up in the difference between
fact and opinion. Actually, there are facts, and one's interpretation of the
facts is influenced by one's value system. But people are being fed these fairy
tales. All the blind people with the second gen streams who are enamoured with
the podcasts. Well, there are all these podcasts, in categories, that you can
find on the stream. It's really easy to subscribe to all of the ones that are
listed. There are a bunch about blindness. Within the politics category, you
can find right wing, sort of center, and left of center. For example, I suppose
NPR is considered left of center and Fox is right of center and CBS is center.
When I bought my stream, the guy from whom I bought it, put a variety of
podcasts on it for me, all kinds of stuff, which I duly deleted. Now the ones I
wanted, weren't on the list. I think I found 2 on the list in which I was
interested. All the others, I knew about from articles that I'd been reading,
and I had to enter each one in, by texting them in, and it's really hard work
when you're old and blind and your memory is impaired. I now have 7, one from
the manufacturer of the stream, just in case there's something new about the
stream that they put in a podcast, 2 that I picked from the list, but neither
of them are mainstream, and 5 that I've chosen, one at a time, every few days.
Democracy Now is one of them. But all the people who have this stream are
listening to pretty much the same stuff, just like sighted people watch the
same stuff on TV. They believe that they're being informed. There's this one
big media factory with Democratic and Republican branches and everyone chooses
the branches they want.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Carl Jarvis
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2017 3:21 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: On the Fight Against Trump
Frank and All,
Suppose all we listened to was a steady diet of nursery rhymes and Fairy Tales,
repeated over and over, with new variations on the old Tales, punctuated with
assurances that what we were listening to was how the world actually was.
Then we found Chris Hedges, Richard Wolff, Naomi Klein and books like Howard
Zinns A Peoples History of the United States.
Over time we begin to understand that our Fairy Tales did not reflect the real
world. And with a growing understanding of how the real world works, we find
it harder and harder to tolerate the Myths being spun by our former Leaders.
As they deny what we now have come to understand to be reality, and as they
smirk and ridicule without factual proof to contradict what these new people
are saying, it becomes painful to listen to them.
In fact, it becomes confusing in trying to balance what we now know to be fact,
and the gibberish being spread.
Of course our friends who still believe in Fairy Tales will insist that the
Fairy Tales are the Truth, and we are being led astray.
They will no more listen to what they believe to be garbage, than we would
continue listening to their silly babble.
From my long, but not always so wise, perspective, we are wasting energy and
time attempting to convince one another of our "truth". On this list, and on
the ACB Chat list, I simply say what I think at the moment I write it. I
neither ask to, nor expect to have my views accepted as wise truth...even when
they are. I think that our Salvation, if any Salvation is waiting for us, will
be found in the many shared experiences we have in common. When enough working
class people find that they have been cheated, deceived, bullied and trashed by
their Leaders, the Tellers of Fairy Tales, then the working class will turn on
those Leaders and smite them a mighty blow. And they can do it because the
working class far out numbers the Ruling Class.
In the mean time, and in between time, we're in for some very hard times.
Carl Jarvis
On 2/18/17, Frank Ventura <frank.ventura@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Bob, the problem here is the we (regulars to this list) wrap ourselves
in what we want to hear, For example left leaning articles and TV (i.e.
Meadow). Although I hope I am wrong, I sometimes wonder if we are the
ones living in the cocoon of our own dreams. I am on a few mainstream
message boards and I hear nothing but right wing ideal ology. So who
is the vocal minority us or them?
Frank
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Bob Hachey
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2017 11:02 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] On the Fight Against Trump
Hi Frank,
I have encountered numerous sources including the article pasted below
my name that leads me to believe that protests and calls to members of
Congress are not trailing off as you indicated the other day. And, its
not just in blue states. Many red state Republicans are feeling the
same kind of heat that democrats felt from the tea party back at the
beginning of the Obama Administration. This is so even in deep red states
like Utah.
Rachel Madow indicated similar evidence in her Thursday night show.
Also, thanks to Madow, democratic leadership has finally decided to
actually help Georgia Democrats in their efforts to take Tom price's
seat. Good for Rachel for doing her job as a member of the press. But
she said that the wimpy leadership of the party was very upset at her
report on how they didn't seem to care about that race. IMHO, only
after her report did Democratic leaders decide to take this race
seriously. That tells me that Democratic leaders have not learned the
lessons of the 2016 election. IT's time for the old guard of the
Democratic Party to step aside and let younger folks and others newer to the
party such as Bernie sanders take over the reigns of control.
If I were Sanders, I'd give Democrats the following ultimatum. Either
you idiots grow a pair or I'm leaving to form a more energetic third party.
Bob Hachey
For love of country, not money Renée Graham Renée Graham . By Renée
Graham Globe Columnist . How would one go about hiring protesters that
Republicans insist are getting paid to do what, in fact, they are
eagerly doing for free? Perhaps there's an app where you can order
them up like a combination
platter: a few dozen middle-aged guys to say, "I'm a Republican, but . . .
"; a bunch of millennials who now realize there is a difference
between the two major political parties; a dollop of citizens who
finally understand that Obamacare and the Affordable Care Act are the
same thing; a sprinkling of the intense silent types who can glare for
hours; and a heaping side order of those who relentlessly spew like
volcanoes at the political object of their disaffection. Do you find
them on Craigslist? (Nah, I already
checked.) At your local big-box hardware store? Could they be actors
waiting tables while dreaming of their big chance to emote "Dump
Trump"? Certain that their management of the country is going well,
President Trump and some GOP members are trying to convince anyone
who'll listen that all those people with their signs, chants, and
bottomless indignation are being paid to stir up dissension and
opposition. This is an "alternative fact" or, as those of us grounded
in reality would call it: a lie. Not surprisingly, Trump, who loves
taking credit for things that have absolutely nothing to do with him,
doesn't want anything to do with this one. Yet it's his historically
dysfunctional, ruinous presidency that's compelling people in the
streets and online. Last week, when voters lambasted Representative
Jason Chaffetz during a town hall in his Utah district, he told
reporters that the boisterous crowd was "more of a paid attempt to bully and
intimidate" him and was not indicative of his constituents' true feelings.
Chaffetz refuses to believe voters could be upset that he, chairman of
the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, spent months
hounding Hillary Clinton about her private e-mail server but can't
muster the same fervor in going after Trump's conflicts of interest.
So far, Chaffetz seems more willing to go after underlings than the
president himself. He claims he sought "guidance" from the Office of
Government Ethics on what to do about senior counselor Kellyanne
Conway hawking Ivanka Trump products on TV. The OGE is now
recommending that Conway be disciplined by the White House. Yet hours
after Michael Flynn resigned as the president's National Security
Adviser, Chaffetz was asked whether there should be further
investigation into Flynn's knotty Russian connections. His reply:
"It's taking care of itself. In other words, "Nothing to see here,
folks, let's all just move along, OK? (Several GOP senators aren't as
convinced, and are pushing for a probe into connections between Trump
and Russia.) This is why Trump and his minions work so hard to
undermine agitators, even within his own party. Like the "fake news"
charge leveled against any journalist or news organization that
exposes Trump's lies, "paid protesters" is just another pejorative term meant
to delegitimize opposition. When Stephen Miller, Trump's White House policy
advisor, eerily warned Sunday that the "powers of the president . . .
are very substantial and will not be questioned," it was like chum for
the protesters circling this unsettling administration. Protesters
will not be deterred by presidential insults or attempts to sow
mistrust and confusion among them. They will continue to contest every
challenge to their civil rights and liberties, and to the
Constitution. Unlike Trump, the millions protesting against him aren't
motivated by money. They're driven by an often difficult, but fierce
love for this country, and will guard it against all enemies, even the
one inhabiting the White House. And that devotion to protecting the
well-being of this nation, a cause bigger than any individual, is something
this president will never experience or understand.
Renée Graham can be reached at
renee.graham@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:renee.graham@xxxxxxxxx>. Follow her on
Twitter @reneeygraham
