Ash writes: "Many of our readers are strongly advocating the candidacy of
Jill Stein. The problem is that, polling at 2% nationally, she has no chance
whatsoever of being elected. In fact, former New Mexico governor Gary
Johnson, running under the Libertarian banner, has triple the supporters
Stein has, and he doesn't even appear to be totally coherent."
Green Party presidential candidate Dr. Jill Stein. (photo: American Herald
Tribune)
Jill Stein
By Marc Ash, Reader Supported News
25 October 16
Many of our readers are strongly advocating the candidacy of Jill Stein.
The problem is that, polling at 2% nationally, she has no chance whatsoever
of being elected. In fact, former New Mexico governor Gary Johnson, running
under the Libertarian banner, has triple the supporters Stein has, and he
doesn't even appear to be totally coherent.
So it isn't really a candidacy at all that Stein's supporters are promoting,
it's more of an ideal or a lecture on political responsibility. The
candidacy provides the platform for the ideology.
The reason Sanders succeeded in being viable as a presidential candidate is
that he was able to convince progressive Democrats that supporting him would
not open the door to another Richard Nixon or George W. Bush.
American Green Party activists have long understood that the ranks of
progressive Democrats held the potential for large numbers of third-party
recruits. What they never understood was that for progressives to come to
their movement, there had to be a "safe means of transit."
The Greens think that just because rank and file Democratic voters resent
the Democratic Party, they're going to leave and join the Green Party. That
won't happen until the GP infrastructure is in place.
In fairness to Stein and her running mate, Ajamu Baraka, the platform they
have crafted is full of wonderful ideas. It's the most socially responsive
presidential platform of the current candidates. But they knew at the time
that they crafted it that in all likelihood they would never have to
materially deliver on any of it. As a result they were free to make a purely
political statement.
To say that there is no difference between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump
echoes the disastrous memes of 1968 and 2000. No difference between Hubert
Humphrey and Richard Nixon? No difference between George W. Bush and Al
Gore?
The difference was life and death for millions. The choice of political
leaders always carries great consequence. The higher the office, the greater
the significance.
What Sanders understood was that he could push the Democratic Party for
fundamental political change and reform but he had to demonstrate that he
would not open the door to a Ted Cruz or a Donald Trump.
Sanders, a well noted Socialist running within the Democratic Party
structure and vowing not to go rogue with an independent campaign should he
fail to gain the Democratic nomination, garnered more progressive Democratic
support than all Green Party presidential candidates combined. He did it and
is still doing it without demonizing anyone.
Demonizing Democrats as a strategy for building a Green Party has always
failed, and should be declared dead by anyone who really wants to organize.
What is needed is "honest organizing." When you have no chance of winning
and you are staying in the race to garner public attention for what you see
as socially beneficial policies or perhaps to get enough votes to qualify
for federal funding in the next presidential election, then you need to say
that. Painting the Democratic candidate as the devil to achieve those ends
is ludicrous.
What the Green Party needs is organizing and infrastructure. The Green Party
can't afford an adversarial relationship with the Democrats. They need an
alliance. Such an alliance would aid, not deter, Green organizing.
For those who are serious about an American Green Party, follow Sanders'
lead. Infiltrate the Democratic Party and make change impossible to ignore.
Collaborate with Our Revolution and similar organizations. Demonstrate the
kind of leadership that builds confidence by showing confidence in your own
ideas.
The American left is hungry for change - build it.
________________________________________
Marc Ash is the founder and former Executive Director of Truthout, and is
now founder and Editor of Reader Supported News.
Reader Supported News is the Publication of Origin for this work. Permission
to republish is freely granted with credit and a link back to Reader
Supported News.
Comments
We are concerned about a recent drift towards vitriol in the RSN Reader
comments section. There is a fine line between moderation and censorship. No
one likes a harsh or confrontational forum atmosphere. At the same time
everyone wants to be able to express themselves freely. We'll start by
encouraging good judgment. If that doesn't work we'll have to ramp up the
moderation.
General guidelines: Avoid personal attacks on other forum members; Avoid
remarks that are ethnically derogatory; Do not advocate violence, or any
illegal activity.
Remember that making the world better begins with responsible action.
- The RSN Team
+12 # kyzipster 2016-10-25 12:03
Well said Marc.
I hate to say it but perhaps real progressives should follow the Tea Party
example. I'm well aware that the Tea Party was a creation of the media but
it evolved into a real force challenging establishment Republicans in
Congress and at the state level. They managed to remove some sane and
somewhat reasonable Republicans from Congress because they were not
conservative enough for the Tea Party. It could be argued that Trump came
out of this extremist movement.
Greens could go after establishment Democrats in the same way in the most
liberal districts the way that an independent socialist like Sanders
challenged Clinton within the Democratic Party. Dianne Feinstein in
California comes to mind.
Sanders was wise to run as a Democrat. He had a much bigger impact on this
election and on the future than Stein.
It's Congress that a progressive revolution should focus on. Had Sanders won
the nomination (and I supported him fully), there's no reason to think he
could have accomplished much with this Congress. I'm not a fan of Clinton
but she is a self serving politician above all else. If elected with a
progressive Congress in place, she wouldn't resist. In the same way that
Trump will not resist the Ayn Rand extremism of Paul Ryan if elected.
It largely comes down to the will of the people despite the power of
corporations. The Conservative Movement is still the number one enemy of the
Progressive Movement, establishment Democrats are #2.
+7 # Johnny 2016-10-25 13:50
Like all Hillarybots, Kyzipster and Ash completely ignore Clinton's
inconvenient promise to establish a "no fly zone" in Syria and to attack
Iran. But, hey, what's a little thermonuclear war when you can elect the
first woman president?
+12 # 74andstillaGadfly 2016-10-25 13:56
Diane Feinstein a progressive? Ouch
+18 # John Puma 2016-10-25 12:26
Actually some think the Green's achieving 5% of the vote - and the public
funding that goes along with it - would go a long way towards building that
infrastructure.
Can we expect an actual article about Jill Stein as opposed to yet another
lecture to the Green Party?
Could RSN's continued shabby treatment be part of the poor polling for the
Greens?
+3 # moreover 2016-10-25 13:23
I just attended a lecture by a political scientist about election
forecasting and polling: the Greens barely register and there is no credible
poll suggesting they might go above 2%. Wish it were different but looking
at the existing Green infrastructure (our chapter here has monthly meetings
with between 4 and 12 attendees) I am not surprised.
+2 # Ted 2016-10-25 14:33
All the more reason to continue our support and efforts to build the party.
As more and more true Progressives discover the values and policies (not to
mention integrity that is NOT to be found within the dems) as laid out on
the Green Party's website;
GP.ORG
I'm sure this recent surge of support will continue to build for years to
come.
+9 # Stilldreamin1 2016-10-25 13:10
We could do without a lecture. How can Marc Ash bring up 2000 as a
justification for not voting for a third party? Nader made it closer but
Gore still won the election- the supreme court stopped the count. We all
know this- certainly Mr. Ash included. Why no mention of strategic voting.
If you don't live in a swing state, a vote for the best candidate is without
risk- unless everyone did it. Now that would send a message to the Clinton
transition team that business as usual will not fly this time.
-5 # Colleen Clark 2016-10-25 13:21
If most of the Nader votes had gone to Gore the Supreme Court wouldn't have
gotten the case and Gore would have won. Self-righteousn ess has no place in
politics.
-2 # Johnny 2016-10-25 14:01
Quoting Colleen Clark:
If most of the Nader votes had gone to Gore the Supreme Court wouldn't have
gotten the case and Gore would have won. Self-righteousness has no place in
politics.
Now, there's a self-righteous rant.
-1 # Lolanne 2016-10-25 14:14
Quoting Colleen Clark:
If most of the Nader votes had gone to Gore the Supreme Court wouldn't have
gotten the case and Gore would have won. Self-righteousness has no place in
politics.
I don't know why you have negative numbers, Coleen Clark. My thumbs up
eliminated one of them, at least. My reaction to Stilldreamin1 was exactly
the same as yours. As one who remembers 2000 all too vividly, I do not
intend to waste my vote this time as I did then!
+12 # moreover 2016-10-25 13:31
I just went back to a 2011 recording I made of Tom Hayden (who died Sunday).
He was talking about the Long War, and how our military budgets are bloated
beyond belief. This and our war debts prevent even willing politicians to
move toward meaningful action on progressive agendas.
+10 # Johnny 2016-10-25 13:47
Ash is right. There is a difference between Trump and Clinton. Trump is the
Hitler who destroyed the civil liberties of the German people. Clinton is
the Hitler who invaded Poland and Russia, and burned Germany to the ground.
Vote for Jill Stein so you can look your children in the face in the few
months remaining before Hillary incinerates them in the World War she
advocates.
+19 # MichiganProgressive 2016-10-25 13:47
Strange that you never mention in your article, Marc Ash, that getting
Stein's Election Day numbers up to 5% is in an of itself a worthwhile goal.
I'm a Green who voted for Bernie Sanders in the Michigan Democratic primary.
I do NOT believe Jill Stein will be our next President. I'm not stupid. Most
Greens are pretty smart people. We know that we need to build-up the Green
Party in order for something like that to become possible down the road, and
one way to do that is to get Jill Stein as many votes as possible on
November 8th so that the Green Pary will have federal matching funds next
time. It will take a 5% showing on November 8th. We need to do this. Please
help, don't hinder! Thank you.
+12 # 74andstillaGadfly 2016-10-25 13:51
Sorry Marc, I agree that I don't need a lecture right now. The reason I am
not voting for Clinton is her no real commitment to climate change. Not
properly addressing environmental issues Now is already too late. Millions
of lives are and will continue to be endangered. Clinton's complete silence
on the Water protectors in North Dakota is pretty clear that she is not
interested in a healthy future for all living things on this planet. She has
spoken for fracking, pipelines and more gulf oil exploration. throw in her
hawkish military stands, lives are endanger just as you say.
I agree with your argument about the dangers of a Trump presidency, but the
global climate crisis is just as bad if not worse. Yes, this planet will
survive but all living things on it will not. We are past Peak Oil
predictions and tumbling quickly into the abyss of greed and head in sand
mentality. Green Party Jill Stein is the only one still standing that seems
to see the disaster we are mired in.
I know she doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting elected but
provides a small opportunity for voters like me to say... enough! My
conscious won't let me do less.
BTW I have never called HRC the devil, I have been very polite to friends
who are trying to convince me to vote for her. Won't make a speck of
difference if the First Woman President is elected to the tune of we girls
are finally out of the kitchen but we all are still cooked.
+1 # librarian1984 2016-10-25 14:22
Gadfly, I love your moniker .. and your thinking.
0 # Victhpooh 2016-10-25 14:23
How will those lives be if Trump wins, has the GOP agenda behind him and 3
or so Supreme Court justices in the image of Alito?
+6 # Polisage 2016-10-25 13:53
Marc,
It does not matter that Jill Stein has no chance, and that should not be
what RSN is about. It should not be part of the Hillary machine or the Trump
machine. The operative word is "news."
I am a monthly supporter because I think independent news sources are
important. The MSM has supported HRC in the most coherent (coordinated?)
manner. Trump is impulsive and opportunistic. Hillary is organized and
opportunistic. The two-party system has failed the American people because
it feels entitled and challenge is not tolerated. Jill and Gary are
unwelcome in their world. The Donald is an aberration because the two party
system has failed. We need a third party to break the existing monopoly and
re-empower the voters. RSN has joined the MSM because it has a "position" on
the election? Marc, get back to first principles of RSN. The election is
disgusting enough--don't discredit RSN by endorsing some candidates and
dissing others.
+3 # Polisage 2016-10-25 14:00
I quote:
"NO FUNDING FOR RSN, REALLY? - We have to scratch all month long for what
minimal budget we function on...Reader Supported News."
There's a message there. Narc, pay attention. You're forgetting the "RS" in
RSN.
+4 # Polisage 2016-10-25 14:04
Sorry Marc, the M and N keys are too close together. Didn't mean to call you
a Narc. What would Freud say?
+9 # JayaVII 2016-10-25 13:57
I'm glad that this guy focuses his energy on sending 14 fundraising letters
a day, not on writing about politics. This is a superficial and
condescending column, more worthy of the corporate media than a supposedly
left-wing site. It is the Democratic Party that remains the largest obstacle
to positive change in this society; it is the graveyard of progressivism. To
vote for Hillary Clinton is to endorse her positions, including the Iraq
War, the Patriot Act and all the other neocon and neoliberal actions she's
taken. This article fills me with disgust. It feels dirty.
+9 # Ted 2016-10-25 13:59
Extremely well written and by far the most convincing arguement to fall in
line with the duopoly I have read yet.
Unfortunately, the premise is wildly off-target.
The current flocking to the Green Party's values and policies has very
little to do with a contest between the individuals who are the faces of the
parties. The vast difference between ideologies and priorities of the
dem/repub party and the Green party, which are rarely if ever discussed by
the the duopoly party talkingheads are what this is about.
I was actually offended that Marc would stoop to using corporate media poll
numbers (proven to be tampered with by the wikileak of Podesta emails) in
his arguement when he should know we could very easily counter those biased
results with more targeted polls (meetwethepeopl e 31percent overall US, 46
percent California) that show a vastly different sentiment among impassioned
voters.
Quite frankly, I'm not interested in building a stronger democratic party
from the bottom up, which I see as fatally corrupt at the controlling top
end.
For me, the Green Party is offering a clean, honest, fresh start, free of
the deeply embedded corporate ties and their agenda.
Integrity, honesty, proper priorities and people-focussed policies are what
I will be voting for this year.
The dems blew it. big time.
+10 # janie1893 2016-10-25 14:02
Don't vote for who you think might win! (I have never understood the logic
behind this rationale).
Vote for the person or party that you want to run our country and keep on
voting for them. Eventually they will win recognition.
-10 # No Go 2016-10-25 14:09
Trump is a repulsive, racist, misogynistic, megalomaniacal nincompoop, and
anyone who votes for him falls somewhere within that frame of reference, or
is just plain stupid.
Stein has taken odd positions on issues, such as praising the Brexit vote,
then deleting her praise from her website, raised doubts about the wisdom of
vaccines, then backtracked, and, generally, demonstrated that she is not
qualified to be President.
Gary Johnson is loopy, plain and simple, and has amply demonstrated that he
is unqualified to be President.
Hillary Clinton is highly qualified to be President, and is supported by
eminent progressive leaders such as Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, John
Lewis, and Dolores Huerta, as well as millions of other decent, caring,
progressive American citizens, and for good reason.
Hillary has articulated smart and progressive policy positions on numerous
important issues, which, for anyone who can read and is interested, can be
found at:
https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/
+3 # Ted 2016-10-25 14:23
Just to clarify (again) the twisting of Stein's stand on vaccines..
Dr. Stein has said, and ONLY said, that she advocates for stronger testing
oversight of vaccine testing, oversight that does NOT include
representatives of big pharma that stands to profit immensely from the
testing of those products.
That is the ENTIRETY of DR. Jill Stein's stand on vaccinatination s, all
else is lies.
+2 # librarian1984 2016-10-25 14:31
Stein was a practicing physician and followed the vaccination schedule with
her patients.
+12 # Old Uncle Dave 2016-10-25 14:14
Over 90% of the female tennis players stand no chance of beating Serena
Williams. Should they not bother to enter the tournaments?
+7 # librarian1984 2016-10-25 14:16
Good grief, Mr. Ash, could you PLEASE tell us what is going on with our
profile pages and the accounts?
ARE people being censored or banned?
Why can't we see our profile pages? Is that going to change?
Why are posts and threads disappearing? Will you post guidelines?
Is there censoring of anti-Clinton posts?
Why can't RMDC access the site from his/her server? Is s/he banned?
-3 # alan17b0 2016-10-25 14:18
I live in Maryland, where HRC has a 30 point
advantage over DT. Hence I have a Free Vote(TM).
I plan to vote for Jill Stein, and am urging others
in my community to do the same. HRC can afford
to lose 10 points of her advantage, and perhaps
we can build the Greens here to get 5% oe 8% of
the vote here.
This argument applies to many many states; e.g.
MA, NY, CA, IL, . . . A test: if neither HRC or
DT are campaigning in your state, then your state
is either solid Blue or solid Red, and you have
a Free Vote. For those living in Pennsylvania,
North Carolina, or Florida, drop Jill Stein like
a hot potato, and beet the bushes for Hillary.
Alan McConnell, in Silver Spring MD.
-4 # Victhpooh 2016-10-25 14:20
Thank you Marc, for the guts it took to praise Hillary and point out that
Stein is not ready to be president. It seems to me that a lot of people are
'for Stein' because Bernie lost. Jill Stein is NOT Bernie Sanders. If she
was, he'd be supporting her. As sorry as I am that Bernie lost, I'm not
about to vote for someone who is just simply not ready or able to be
president and hasn't got a chance. I'm also disappointed with her VP choice
who has said some anti Semitic things and has called Bernie Sanders a 'white
supremacist'. The first choice you make as a candidate is choosing a
competent and qualified running mate and in my opinion, she failed 'bigly'.
I'm voting FOR Hillary and at the same time, AGAINST Trump.
+3 # librarian1984 2016-10-25 14:29
And Hillary's VP is anti-choice, pro-TPP, pro-Wall Street and pro-fracking,
while HRC is pro-war.
How is THAT not a problem?
-3 # elizabethf 2016-10-25 14:31
A vote for Jill Stein is a vote for Trump.
0 # Ted 2016-10-25 14:37
Wait! Wait! My turn!
Eating an Apple is actually eating an Orange!
0 # Anonymot 2016-10-25 14:36
MARC ASH:
I think something has gone wrong here and that you need to put in a large
COMMENT at the top to clarify if the DNC or someone has bugged or hacked the
RSN site.
If you are closing RSN, say so.
If you are banning or censoring, say so.
If there's simply a technical problem, tell your readers.
NOW!
0 # guomashi 2016-10-25 14:38
A disgustingly disingenuous article.
Example:
"To say that there is no difference between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump
echoes the disastrous memes of 1968 and 2000. No difference between Hubert
Humphrey and Richard Nixon? No difference between George W. Bush and Al
Gore?
The difference was life and death for millions. "
So apparently Mr. Ash has been reading comments here, but not understanding
them.
No one has said Trump and Clinton are not different. No one.
As for Mr. Ash's second paragraph: yes, indeed! The difference between Trump
and Clinton will be life and death for millions. Now let's see if Mr. Ash
can guess which one wants to start WW III and kill millions?
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Dennis Kucinich, World Beyond War
22 October 2016
FOCUS: Bernie Sanders Is the Most Popular Politician in America
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24 October 2016
Documenting Trump's Abuse of Women
Jane Mayer, The New Yorker
22 October 2016
North Dakota Police 'Out of Control' in Crackdown on Dakota Access Pipeline
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23 October 2016
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23 October 2016
Michael Moore: It's Not Just Trump on the Ballot. Racism and Misogyny Are
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22 October 2016
The Republican Party Owns Donald Trump's Actions on Election Day
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24 October 2016
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Green Party presidential candidate Dr. Jill Stein. (photo: American Herald
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Jill Stein
By Marc Ash, Reader Supported News
25 October 16
any of our readers are strongly advocating the candidacy of Jill Stein. The
problem is that, polling at 2% nationally, she has no chance whatsoever of
being elected. In fact, former New Mexico governor Gary Johnson, running
under the Libertarian banner, has triple the supporters Stein has, and he
doesn't even appear to be totally coherent.
So it isn't really a candidacy at all that Stein's supporters are promoting,
it's more of an ideal or a lecture on political responsibility. The
candidacy provides the platform for the ideology.
The reason Sanders succeeded in being viable as a presidential candidate is
that he was able to convince progressive Democrats that supporting him would
not open the door to another Richard Nixon or George W. Bush.
American Green Party activists have long understood that the ranks of
progressive Democrats held the potential for large numbers of third-party
recruits. What they never understood was that for progressives to come to
their movement, there had to be a "safe means of transit."
The Greens think that just because rank and file Democratic voters resent
the Democratic Party, they're going to leave and join the Green Party. That
won't happen until the GP infrastructure is in place.
In fairness to Stein and her running mate, Ajamu Baraka, the platform they
have crafted is full of wonderful ideas. It's the most socially responsive
presidential platform of the current candidates. But they knew at the time
that they crafted it that in all likelihood they would never have to
materially deliver on any of it. As a result they were free to make a purely
political statement.
To say that there is no difference between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump
echoes the disastrous memes of 1968 and 2000. No difference between Hubert
Humphrey and Richard Nixon? No difference between George W. Bush and Al
Gore?
The difference was life and death for millions. The choice of political
leaders always carries great consequence. The higher the office, the greater
the significance.
What Sanders understood was that he could push the Democratic Party for
fundamental political change and reform but he had to demonstrate that he
would not open the door to a Ted Cruz or a Donald Trump.
Sanders, a well noted Socialist running within the Democratic Party
structure and vowing not to go rogue with an independent campaign should he
fail to gain the Democratic nomination, garnered more progressive Democratic
support than all Green Party presidential candidates combined. He did it and
is still doing it without demonizing anyone.
Demonizing Democrats as a strategy for building a Green Party has always
failed, and should be declared dead by anyone who really wants to organize.
What is needed is "honest organizing." When you have no chance of winning
and you are staying in the race to garner public attention for what you see
as socially beneficial policies or perhaps to get enough votes to qualify
for federal funding in the next presidential election, then you need to say
that. Painting the Democratic candidate as the devil to achieve those ends
is ludicrous.
What the Green Party needs is organizing and infrastructure. The Green Party
can't afford an adversarial relationship with the Democrats. They need an
alliance. Such an alliance would aid, not deter, Green organizing.
For those who are serious about an American Green Party, follow Sanders'
lead. Infiltrate the Democratic Party and make change impossible to ignore.
Collaborate with Our Revolution and similar organizations. Demonstrate the
kind of leadership that builds confidence by showing confidence in your own
ideas.
The American left is hungry for change - build it.
Marc Ash is the founder and former Executive Director of Truthout, and is
now founder and Editor of Reader Supported News.
Reader Supported News is the Publication of Origin for this work. Permission
to republish is freely granted with credit and a link back to Reader
Supported News.
http://e-max.it/posizionamento-siti-web/socializehttp://e-max.it/posizioname
nto-siti-web/socialize
Comments /component/jcomments/feed/com_content/39876Error! Hyperlink
reference not valid.
We are concerned about a recent drift towards vitriol in the RSN Reader
comments section. There is a fine line between moderation and censorship. No
one likes a harsh or confrontational forum atmosphere. At the same time
everyone wants to be able to express themselves freely. We'll start by
encouraging good judgment. If that doesn't work we'll have to ramp up the
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General guidelines: Avoid personal attacks on other forum members; Avoid
remarks that are ethnically derogatory; Do not advocate violence, or any
illegal activity.
Remember that making the world better begins with responsible action.
- The RSN Team
http://readersupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/kyzipsterhttp://read
ersupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/kyzipster
Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.Error! Hyperlink reference not
valid.+12 # kyzipster 2016-10-25 12:03
Well said Marc.
I hate to say it but perhaps real progressives should follow the Tea Party
example. I'm well aware that the Tea Party was a creation of the media but
it evolved into a real force challenging establishment Republicans in
Congress and at the state level. They managed to remove some sane and
somewhat reasonable Republicans from Congress because they were not
conservative enough for the Tea Party. It could be argued that Trump came
out of this extremist movement.
Greens could go after establishment Democrats in the same way in the most
liberal districts the way that an independent socialist like Sanders
challenged Clinton within the Democratic Party. Dianne Feinstein in
California comes to mind.
Sanders was wise to run as a Democrat. He had a much bigger impact on this
election and on the future than Stein.
It's Congress that a progressive revolution should focus on. Had Sanders won
the nomination (and I supported him fully), there's no reason to think he
could have accomplished much with this Congress. I'm not a fan of Clinton
but she is a self serving politician above all else. If elected with a
progressive Congress in place, she wouldn't resist. In the same way that
Trump will not resist the Ayn Rand extremism of Paul Ryan if elected.
It largely comes down to the will of the people despite the power of
corporations. The Conservative Movement is still the number one enemy of the
Progressive Movement, establishment Democrats are #2.
http://readersupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/Johnnyhttp://readers
upportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/Johnny
Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.+7
# Johnny 2016-10-25 13:50
Like all Hillarybots, Kyzipster and Ash completely ignore Clinton's
inconvenient promise to establish a "no fly zone" in Syria and to attack
Iran. But, hey, what's a little thermonuclear war when you can elect the
first woman president?
http://readersupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/74andstillaGadflyhtt
p://readersupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/74andstillaGadfly
Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.Error! Hyperlink reference not
valid.+12 # 74andstillaGadfly 2016-10-25 13:56
Diane Feinstein a progressive? Ouch
http://readersupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/John
Pumahttp://readersupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/John Puma
Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.Error! Hyperlink reference not
valid.+18 # John Puma 2016-10-25 12:26
Actually some think the Green's achieving 5% of the vote - and the public
funding that goes along with it - would go a long way towards building that
infrastructure.
Can we expect an actual article about Jill Stein as opposed to yet another
lecture to the Green Party?
Could RSN's continued shabby treatment be part of the poor polling for the
Greens?
http://readersupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/moreoverhttp://reade
rsupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/moreover
Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.+3
# moreover 2016-10-25 13:23
I just attended a lecture by a political scientist about election
forecasting and polling: the Greens barely register and there is no credible
poll suggesting they might go above 2%. Wish it were different but looking
at the existing Green infrastructure (our chapter here has monthly meetings
with between 4 and 12 attendees) I am not surprised.
http://readersupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/Tedhttp://readersupp
ortednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/Ted
Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.+2
# Ted 2016-10-25 14:33
All the more reason to continue our support and efforts to build the party.
As more and more true Progressives discover the values and policies (not to
mention integrity that is NOT to be found within the dems) as laid out on
the Green Party's website;
GP.ORG
I'm sure this recent surge of support will continue to build for years to
come.
http://readersupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/Stilldreamin1http://
readersupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/Stilldreamin1
Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.+9
# Stilldreamin1 2016-10-25 13:10
We could do without a lecture. How can Marc Ash bring up 2000 as a
justification for not voting for a third party? Nader made it closer but
Gore still won the election- the supreme court stopped the count. We all
know this- certainly Mr. Ash included. Why no mention of strategic voting.
If you don't live in a swing state, a vote for the best candidate is without
risk- unless everyone did it. Now that would send a message to the Clinton
transition team that business as usual will not fly this time.
http://readersupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/Colleen
Clarkhttp://readersupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/Colleen Clark
Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.-5
# Colleen Clark 2016-10-25 13:21
If most of the Nader votes had gone to Gore the Supreme Court wouldn't have
gotten the case and Gore would have won. Self-righteousn ess has no place in
politics.
http://readersupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/Johnnyhttp://readers
upportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/Johnny
Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.-2
# Johnny 2016-10-25 14:01
Quoting Colleen Clark:
If most of the Nader votes had gone to Gore the Supreme Court wouldn't have
gotten the case and Gore would have won. Self-righteousness has no place in
politics.
Now, there's a self-righteous rant.
http://readersupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/Lolannehttp://reader
supportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/Lolanne
Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.-1
# Lolanne 2016-10-25 14:14
Quoting Colleen Clark:
If most of the Nader votes had gone to Gore the Supreme Court wouldn't have
gotten the case and Gore would have won. Self-righteousness has no place in
politics.
I don't know why you have negative numbers, Coleen Clark. My thumbs up
eliminated one of them, at least. My reaction to Stilldreamin1 was exactly
the same as yours. As one who remembers 2000 all too vividly, I do not
intend to waste my vote this time as I did then!
http://readersupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/moreoverhttp://reade
rsupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/moreover
Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.Error! Hyperlink reference not
valid.+12 # moreover 2016-10-25 13:31
I just went back to a 2011 recording I made of Tom Hayden (who died Sunday).
He was talking about the Long War, and how our military budgets are bloated
beyond belief. This and our war debts prevent even willing politicians to
move toward meaningful action on progressive agendas.
http://readersupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/Johnnyhttp://readers
upportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/Johnny
Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.Error! Hyperlink reference not
valid.+10 # Johnny 2016-10-25 13:47
Ash is right. There is a difference between Trump and Clinton. Trump is the
Hitler who destroyed the civil liberties of the German people. Clinton is
the Hitler who invaded Poland and Russia, and burned Germany to the ground.
Vote for Jill Stein so you can look your children in the face in the few
months remaining before Hillary incinerates them in the World War she
advocates.
http://readersupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/MichiganProgressiveh
ttp://readersupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/MichiganProgressive
Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.Error! Hyperlink reference not
valid.+19 # MichiganProgressive 2016-10-25 13:47
Strange that you never mention in your article, Marc Ash, that getting
Stein's Election Day numbers up to 5% is in an of itself a worthwhile goal.
I'm a Green who voted for Bernie Sanders in the Michigan Democratic primary.
I do NOT believe Jill Stein will be our next President. I'm not stupid. Most
Greens are pretty smart people. We know that we need to build-up the Green
Party in order for something like that to become possible down the road, and
one way to do that is to get Jill Stein as many votes as possible on
November 8th so that the Green Pary will have federal matching funds next
time. It will take a 5% showing on November 8th. We need to do this. Please
help, don't hinder! Thank you.
http://readersupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/74andstillaGadflyhtt
p://readersupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/74andstillaGadfly
Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.Error! Hyperlink reference not
valid.+12 # 74andstillaGadfly 2016-10-25 13:51
Sorry Marc, I agree that I don't need a lecture right now. The reason I am
not voting for Clinton is her no real commitment to climate change. Not
properly addressing environmental issues Now is already too late. Millions
of lives are and will continue to be endangered. Clinton's complete silence
on the Water protectors in North Dakota is pretty clear that she is not
interested in a healthy future for all living things on this planet. She has
spoken for fracking, pipelines and more gulf oil exploration. throw in her
hawkish military stands, lives are endanger just as you say.
I agree with your argument about the dangers of a Trump presidency, but the
global climate crisis is just as bad if not worse. Yes, this planet will
survive but all living things on it will not. We are past Peak Oil
predictions and tumbling quickly into the abyss of greed and head in sand
mentality. Green Party Jill Stein is the only one still standing that seems
to see the disaster we are mired in.
I know she doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting elected but
provides a small opportunity for voters like me to say... enough! My
conscious won't let me do less.
BTW I have never called HRC the devil, I have been very polite to friends
who are trying to convince me to vote for her. Won't make a speck of
difference if the First Woman President is elected to the tune of we girls
are finally out of the kitchen but we all are still cooked.
http://readersupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/librarian1984http://
readersupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/librarian1984
Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.+1
# librarian1984 2016-10-25 14:22
Gadfly, I love your moniker .. and your thinking.
http://readersupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/Victhpoohhttp://read
ersupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/Victhpooh
Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.0
# Victhpooh 2016-10-25 14:23
How will those lives be if Trump wins, has the GOP agenda behind him and 3
or so Supreme Court justices in the image of Alito?
http://readersupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/Polisagehttp://reade
rsupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/Polisage
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# Polisage 2016-10-25 13:53
Marc,
It does not matter that Jill Stein has no chance, and that should not be
what RSN is about. It should not be part of the Hillary machine or the Trump
machine. The operative word is "news."
I am a monthly supporter because I think independent news sources are
important. The MSM has supported HRC in the most coherent (coordinated?)
manner. Trump is impulsive and opportunistic. Hillary is organized and
opportunistic. The two-party system has failed the American people because
it feels entitled and challenge is not tolerated. Jill and Gary are
unwelcome in their world. The Donald is an aberration because the two party
system has failed. We need a third party to break the existing monopoly and
re-empower the voters. RSN has joined the MSM because it has a "position" on
the election? Marc, get back to first principles of RSN. The election is
disgusting enough--don't discredit RSN by endorsing some candidates and
dissing others.
http://readersupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/Polisagehttp://reade
rsupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/Polisage
Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.+3
# Polisage 2016-10-25 14:00
I quote:
"NO FUNDING FOR RSN, REALLY? - We have to scratch all month long for what
minimal budget we function on...Reader Supported News."
There's a message there. Narc, pay attention. You're forgetting the "RS" in
RSN.
http://readersupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/Polisagehttp://reade
rsupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/Polisage
Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.+4
# Polisage 2016-10-25 14:04
Sorry Marc, the M and N keys are too close together. Didn't mean to call you
a Narc. What would Freud say?
http://readersupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/JayaVIIhttp://reader
supportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/JayaVII
Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.+9
# JayaVII 2016-10-25 13:57
I'm glad that this guy focuses his energy on sending 14 fundraising letters
a day, not on writing about politics. This is a superficial and
condescending column, more worthy of the corporate media than a supposedly
left-wing site. It is the Democratic Party that remains the largest obstacle
to positive change in this society; it is the graveyard of progressivism. To
vote for Hillary Clinton is to endorse her positions, including the Iraq
War, the Patriot Act and all the other neocon and neoliberal actions she's
taken. This article fills me with disgust. It feels dirty.
http://readersupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/Tedhttp://readersupp
ortednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/Ted
Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.+9
# Ted 2016-10-25 13:59
Extremely well written and by far the most convincing arguement to fall in
line with the duopoly I have read yet.
Unfortunately, the premise is wildly off-target.
The current flocking to the Green Party's values and policies has very
little to do with a contest between the individuals who are the faces of the
parties. The vast difference between ideologies and priorities of the
dem/repub party and the Green party, which are rarely if ever discussed by
the the duopoly party talkingheads are what this is about.
I was actually offended that Marc would stoop to using corporate media poll
numbers (proven to be tampered with by the wikileak of Podesta emails) in
his arguement when he should know we could very easily counter those biased
results with more targeted polls (meetwethepeopl e 31percent overall US, 46
percent California) that show a vastly different sentiment among impassioned
voters.
Quite frankly, I'm not interested in building a stronger democratic party
from the bottom up, which I see as fatally corrupt at the controlling top
end.
For me, the Green Party is offering a clean, honest, fresh start, free of
the deeply embedded corporate ties and their agenda.
Integrity, honesty, proper priorities and people-focussed policies are what
I will be voting for this year.
The dems blew it. big time.
http://readersupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/janie1893http://read
ersupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/janie1893
Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.Error! Hyperlink reference not
valid.+10 # janie1893 2016-10-25 14:02
Don't vote for who you think might win! (I have never understood the logic
behind this rationale).
Vote for the person or party that you want to run our country and keep on
voting for them. Eventually they will win recognition.
http://readersupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/No
Gohttp://readersupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/No Go
Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.Error! Hyperlink reference not
valid.-10 # No Go 2016-10-25 14:09
Trump is a repulsive, racist, misogynistic, megalomaniacal nincompoop, and
anyone who votes for him falls somewhere within that frame of reference, or
is just plain stupid.
Stein has taken odd positions on issues, such as praising the Brexit vote,
then deleting her praise from her website, raised doubts about the wisdom of
vaccines, then backtracked, and, generally, demonstrated that she is not
qualified to be President.
Gary Johnson is loopy, plain and simple, and has amply demonstrated that he
is unqualified to be President.
Hillary Clinton is highly qualified to be President, and is supported by
eminent progressive leaders such as Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, John
Lewis, and Dolores Huerta, as well as millions of other decent, caring,
progressive American citizens, and for good reason.
Hillary has articulated smart and progressive policy positions on numerous
important issues, which, for anyone who can read and is interested, can be
found at:
https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/ ;
http://readersupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/Tedhttp://readersupp
ortednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/Ted
Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.+3
# Ted 2016-10-25 14:23
Just to clarify (again) the twisting of Stein's stand on vaccines..
Dr. Stein has said, and ONLY said, that she advocates for stronger testing
oversight of vaccine testing, oversight that does NOT include
representatives of big pharma that stands to profit immensely from the
testing of those products.
That is the ENTIRETY of DR. Jill Stein's stand on vaccinatination s, all
else is lies.
http://readersupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/librarian1984http://
readersupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/librarian1984
Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.+2
# librarian1984 2016-10-25 14:31
Stein was a practicing physician and followed the vaccination schedule with
her patients.
http://readersupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/Old Uncle
Davehttp://readersupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/Old Uncle Dave
Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.Error! Hyperlink reference not
valid.+12 # Old Uncle Dave 2016-10-25 14:14
Over 90% of the female tennis players stand no chance of beating Serena
Williams. Should they not bother to enter the tournaments?
http://readersupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/librarian1984http://
readersupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/librarian1984
Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.+7
# librarian1984 2016-10-25 14:16
Good grief, Mr. Ash, could you PLEASE tell us what is going on with our
profile pages and the accounts?
ARE people being censored or banned?
Why can't we see our profile pages? Is that going to change?
Why are posts and threads disappearing? Will you post guidelines?
Is there censoring of anti-Clinton posts?
Why can't RMDC access the site from his/her server? Is s/he banned?
http://readersupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/alan17b0http://reade
rsupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/alan17b0
Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.-3
# alan17b0 2016-10-25 14:18
I live in Maryland, where HRC has a 30 point
advantage over DT. Hence I have a Free Vote(TM).
I plan to vote for Jill Stein, and am urging others
in my community to do the same. HRC can afford
to lose 10 points of her advantage, and perhaps
we can build the Greens here to get 5% oe 8% of
the vote here.
This argument applies to many many states; e.g.
MA, NY, CA, IL, . . . A test: if neither HRC or
DT are campaigning in your state, then your state
is either solid Blue or solid Red, and you have
a Free Vote. For those living in Pennsylvania,
North Carolina, or Florida, drop Jill Stein like
a hot potato, and beet the bushes for Hillary.
Alan McConnell, in Silver Spring MD.
http://readersupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/Victhpoohhttp://read
ersupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/Victhpooh
Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.-4
# Victhpooh 2016-10-25 14:20
Thank you Marc, for the guts it took to praise Hillary and point out that
Stein is not ready to be president. It seems to me that a lot of people are
'for Stein' because Bernie lost. Jill Stein is NOT Bernie Sanders. If she
was, he'd be supporting her. As sorry as I am that Bernie lost, I'm not
about to vote for someone who is just simply not ready or able to be
president and hasn't got a chance. I'm also disappointed with her VP choice
who has said some anti Semitic things and has called Bernie Sanders a 'white
supremacist'. The first choice you make as a candidate is choosing a
competent and qualified running mate and in my opinion, she failed 'bigly'.
I'm voting FOR Hillary and at the same time, AGAINST Trump.
http://readersupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/librarian1984http://
readersupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/librarian1984
Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.+3
# librarian1984 2016-10-25 14:29
And Hillary's VP is anti-choice, pro-TPP, pro-Wall Street and pro-fracking,
while HRC is pro-war.
How is THAT not a problem?
http://readersupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/elizabethfhttp://rea
dersupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/elizabethf
Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.-3
# elizabethf 2016-10-25 14:31
A vote for Jill Stein is a vote for Trump.
http://readersupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/Tedhttp://readersupp
ortednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/Ted
Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.0
# Ted 2016-10-25 14:37
Wait! Wait! My turn!
Eating an Apple is actually eating an Orange!
http://readersupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/Anonymothttp://reade
rsupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/Anonymot
Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.0
# Anonymot 2016-10-25 14:36
MARC ASH:
I think something has gone wrong here and that you need to put in a large
COMMENT at the top to clarify if the DNC or someone has bugged or hacked the
RSN site.
If you are closing RSN, say so.
If you are banning or censoring, say so.
If there's simply a technical problem, tell your readers.
NOW!
http://readersupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/guomashihttp://reade
rsupportednews.org/user-profile/userprofile/guomashi
Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.0
# guomashi 2016-10-25 14:38
A disgustingly disingenuous article.
Example:
"To say that there is no difference between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump
echoes the disastrous memes of 1968 and 2000. No difference between Hubert
Humphrey and Richard Nixon? No difference between George W. Bush and Al
Gore?
The difference was life and death for millions. "
So apparently Mr. Ash has been reading comments here, but not understanding
them.
No one has said Trump and Clinton are not different. No one.
As for Mr. Ash's second paragraph: yes, indeed! The difference between Trump
and Clinton will be life and death for millions. Now let's see if Mr. Ash
can guess which one wants to start WW III and kill millions?
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