However relevant the question depends on what it is being claimed to be
relevant to. But, again, as a person who earned a biology degree I can
say that the question is based on false assumptions. There is no time
that a fetus becomes a human. It is a human all along and even those
gametes that fused to form the premitotic zygote were human cells. In
relation to the abortion question the proper question is when does the
fetus attain personhood. As I said in an earlier message, that has to be
arbitrary and parturition is a very good point to set it for a lot of
reasons.
On 10/11/2017 3:22 PM, Miriam Vieni wrote:
Mary,
I don’t think that is a relevant question. The question is, “At what point does the fetus become viable?”.
Then we could consider some other questions like, What makes human life more valuable than the lives of other primates or than the lives of intelligent animals who are capable of feeling emotion, Which lives are disposable and how do we decide?
Miriam
*From:* blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *MARY CONVY
*Sent:* Wednesday, October 11, 2017 10:43 AM
*To:* blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
*Subject:* [blind-democracy] Re: Jesus, Christmas and Donald Trump for evangelists
Miriam, At what point do you believe the fetus becomes a human being?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:*blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> <blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> on behalf of Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
*Sent:* Wednesday, October 11, 2017 9:47 AM
*To:* blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Subject:* [blind-democracy] Re: Jesus, Christmas and Donald Trump for evangelists
Bob,
I’d like to point out that when a woman uses birth control pills for a prolonged period of time, there can be negative health effects for her. When a man gets a vasectomy, his health isn’t negatively affected. I’m not saying that women shouldn’t take responsibility for birth control, but I am saying that it’s more complicated for them. Regarding your belief that life begins in the womb, one needs to ask about the nature of that life. Life is all around us: insects that we kill for convenience, safety, or health, bacteria that are harmful to us, animals of various kinds that we kill for a variety of reasons, (and the animal rights activists and vegans have some strong feelings about whether such killings are justified), and the millions we kill in the service of our geopolitical goals, as well as those whom we kill in revenge for the crimes they may or may not have committed. So it is reasonable to question the assertion that the life of a developing fetus should take precedence over the right of the woman in whose body that fetus is developing, to determine whether or not she wishes to carry the fetus.
Miriam
*From:*blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> [mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *Bob Hachey
*Sent:* Wednesday, October 11, 2017 8:44 AM
*To:* blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Subject:* [blind-democracy] Re: Jesus, Christmas and Donald Trump for evangelists
Hi Mary,
OK, yes it is life when in the womb in the latter stages of pregnancy imho, , particularly if that life could survive outside the womb. . I believe in a woman’s right to choose in the first six months of pregnancy. This is not an easy choice to make and I make it as a result of what some women go through in the face of limited options like having to drive six hours to get an abortion or being forced to undergo transvaginal ultrasound before an abortion. I also recognize the psychological trauma associated with abortion. . Like Obama, I believe that abortions should be legal, safe and rare. No birth control other than vasectomy and tubal ligation are 100 percent effective and I don’t believe that a woman should be forced to endure an unwanted pregnancy. When we were younger, my wife and I decided that we didn’t want to have children. I got a vasectomy. I will admit that I have less sympathy for women who refuse to use birth control, (by either partner) and then have multiple abortions. Ideally, abortion should be a last resort after other methods of preventing pregnancy have failed, but we sure don’t live in an ideal world.
Now for the Catholic church. I was raised Catholic and believe that I benefitted from that experience though I am no-longer a practicing Catholic. The church I was raised in emphasized programs designed to fight poverty and injustice. I believe that the church took a very wrong direction under Pope Benedict wherein anti-poverty programs took a back seat to abortion and birth control issues. I am happy to see that Pope Francis is moving back toward the anti-poverty direction.
AT this point in my journey through life, I am an agnostic considering atheism. IF I ever do go back to organized religion I would likely choose the Unitarian universalists.
Bob Hachey
