Miriam,
And this morning on both NPR and democracy now, I heard that around
28,000 people attended a Sanders speech in New York(Brooklyn?). It
was announced as the largest gathering to date, in the presidential
campaign.
It will be interesting to watch the Democratic Party leaders twist and
wriggle as they try to explain why Bernie is bad for the Party and the
nation. But then, they seem to be lining up with the Republican
Party, their other head, to make voting more difficult for those who
might support Sanders.
It's far past time to dismantle this two-headed Party, and construct a
government of the People, by the People and for All of the People.
And now, I will take another puff from my Magic Pipe.
Carl Jarvis
On 4/15/16, Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Carl,
The twenty seven thousand people were in the Washington Square Park which
is
in Greenwich Village, (downtown Manhattan). I listened to a video of Spike
Lee and The actress, something Dawson, and then Bernie. Although Bernie
generally gives the same speech, different issues are emphasized in
different places and new issues tend to be added. He has started talking
much more about the Israeli mistreatment of Palestinians and illegal
settlements in the West Bank than he did before. Even though what he is
taking is a liberal pro Israel position, and it is in my opinion and that
of
many people, inadequate at this point, it is a truly brave and radical
position to take. Not one other politician has been willing to say publicly
that Israel is doing something wrong or to ssay that what Israel did in
Gaza
in 2014 was disproportionate. But he's walking on a tight rope and, for
example, after hiring a young Jewish liberal activist to handle the
Israel/Palestine issue, he suspended her when he got to New York because
she'd written some tweets that, I suppose, the campaign was afraid would
alienate New York Jewish voters.
The problem is that the Democratic Party insiders can't allow Bernie to win
the nomination because that would mean that the party might really have to
begin to change how it operates. It's an institution based on receiving
lots
of money from lobbyists and doing the bidding of the corporations and banks
who hire those lobbyists. And there are all the other organizations that
are
tied in with the party in one way or another. It's a whole system, and it's
all supported by the mass media. Obama was willing to front for them in
order to be the first Black President. But Sanders is a very different
kettle of fish.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Carl Jarvis
Sent: Friday, April 15, 2016 9:11 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Jane Sanders: Bernie and I Will Vote Hillary
if We Have To
Miriam,
I heard that Bernie had some 27 thousand supporters at his last rally...was
it in Brooklyn?
I did hear what turned out to be a non information cat and dog fight on
Democracy Now, this morning. I began by assuming my neutral brain
position.
Robert Sheer made some good points in the beginning. When I first heard
the
woman...I can't recall her name...I thought she sounded reasonable and very
intelligent. But she began sounding as if she were talking down to Robert
Sheer, also a very bright guy, and sounding as if she were smirking at some
of his points. When he talked about Clinton's past positions, she glibly
brushed them aside, saying that this was ancient history and we needed to
come into the present and move forward. I may have not put down her exact
words, but that was the sense of it.
And then she put down Sanders because he has preached the same message for
40 years, and in addition he has little to show in the way of sponsored
legislation.
In her mind, this made Clinton the better candidate because she was
flexible
and kept up with the current trends. Again, my words.
But Sanders 40 years of beating the same drum is exactly why I think he
might provide some leadership, rather than providing some "followership".
And when a congressman is consistent in putting forward legislation that
challenges the Establishment, of course he is not going to have a huge
portfolio of successful bills. Anyway, before they fell apart, which
turned
me off, the Clinton Lady was making some really great points...for Bernie.
This thing of everybody talking and shouting over one another is not
conductive to stimulating my brain. Thom Hartman does some of this on his
RT-TV Program. He calls it the "Ramble". I call it, "Time to change
channels".
So Amy Goodman is on a 100 city tour, celebrating democracy now's 20 years
of broadcasting. I really appreciate her work, and that of Alternative
Radio and Thom Hartman, and others who offer thoughtful programming. It's
rather pleasant being treated like intelligent adults, rather than the
insulting approach the commercial media seems to feel is all we can handle.
Carl Jarvis
On 4/15/16, Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Well, I know you must have heard Democracy Now today. I was justclear.
listening to it. That debate, which turned into a real argument,
between Robert Sheer and the Clinton supporter is illustrative of the
real split in the Democratic party right now. What most distressed me,
was her repeated smug statement that Clinton is going to win the
Presidency and that we need to just accept this and do as much as we
can to, as she put it, move things along. She sees Bernie as an
inferior candidate because he's had the same message for 40 years and
because, she says, he never accomplished anything in congress. The
point is that he hasn't joined the club and played by the rules and
done all the compromising, I suppose. From the point of view of the
political class, he's an outsider. And given the political machine in
New York, it will be a miracle if he wins the state. Schumer sent out
an email yesterday, saying that he prefers Hillary and asking us, the
voters, to tell him what issues are important to us, he provided a
list and economic inequality and everlasting war were not on it, and
asking us whom we planned to vote for. Yesterday, WNYC had a
political reporter talking about how inconsequential Bernie is.
Whatever else Bernie is, he must be very brave and dedicated to go
through all of this.
Miriamt
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Carl Jarvis
Sent: Friday, April 15, 2016 4:10 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Jane Sanders: Bernie and I Will Vote
Hillary if We Have To
You point out a very real problem. And I am guilty of doing it, too.
I hear something that jumps out at me, or I hear the reaction of
someone else who is reacting to a point, and I blow it out of
proportion. But having said that, I do believe Bernie and Jane will
vote for Hillary because they believe that the System can be made to
bring relief to the working people. My thinking is that all we can do
is to put off the inevitable. I can vote for Sanders, even knowing
this, because he will try to do right for the working folks on many
basic issues. But Clinton is not being straight with the people.
She will turn her back on the workers when she has to pick between the
People or the Empire.
While I have swung to and fro in this political wind, I am more and
more convinced that a vote for Clinton is a vote against the working
class. I know some who would say that this is equally true with a
vote for Sanders., but as I've said before, I will not invest any more
of myself in the Empire's government. That might not be a
satisfactory answer, but it is what it is.
Carl Jarvis
On 4/15/16, Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Well, the thing about that article is that the headline is misleading.
There
was a video of the interview and actually, although she did make the
statement that she and Bernie would vote for Hillary if Hillary were
the nominee, it was a comment that she made in passing, not at all an
important part of the interview, and not with any emphasis. But when
you read that headline and the article, it's like she's undercut the
whole point of her husband's campaign. I've been reading a lot about
this campaign and watching a number of videos of Bernie's speeches.
All of the reporting on it, the analyzing, I think that it all
distorts what people originally say and the meaning of what they say.
For example, if you listen to Bernie's interview with the editorial
board of the Daily News, the meaning of his answers seems very
different than it does when reported because a lot is taken out of
context. And both campaigns are doing all they can to whip up support
for their candidates so in that process, a lot gets distorted also.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Carl
Jarvis
Sent: Friday, April 15, 2016 11:39 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Jane Sanders: Bernie and I Will Vote
Hillary if We Have To
Jane Sanders is speaking as a supporter of the very System that her
husband is criticizing. Although, Bernie Sanders is in no way
calling for a true revolution. But in saying they will vote for
Clinton, if Sanders is not selected, Jane Sanders has made her position
wonderful."She will support Clinton even though she is supporting the veryend.
System that seems to have confused her, and which she knows is not
democratic. She doesn't seem to understand that the Democratic
Party's use of Super Delegates and their rule that a voter must have
been a registered Democrat by last November, as designed by the Party
to Protect the Party. When an organization is more concerned with
protecting itself than in serving its members, its usefulness is at
an
Carl Jarvis
On 4/14/16, Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
race.
Excerpt: "In a candid interview with Tim Teeman, a straight-shooting
Jane Sanders talks superdelegates, her husband's temperament, the
need for party unity, and missing her family."
Bernie Sanders with his wife Jane Sanders. (photo: Brian
Snyder/Reuters)
Jane Sanders: Bernie and I Will Vote Hillary if We Have To By Tim
Teeman, The Daily Beast
14 April 16
In a candid interview with Tim Teeman, a straight-shooting Jane
Sanders talks superdelegates, her husband's temperament, the need
for party unity, and missing her family.
Jane Sanders and her husband Bernie will support Hillary Clinton if
the latter beats Bernie Sanders in the Democratic presidential
nomination
Senate."
Mrs. Sanders, in an interview with The Daily Beast on Wednesday,
said they would hope Bernie's supporters would follow their lead.
Conversely, if Bernie Sanders secured the nomination, Mrs. Sanders
said she hoped Clinton and her supporters would support him.
In a wide-ranging, candid interview, Mrs. Sanders also said the
superdelegate system-currently weighted significantly in Clinton's
favor-was unfair, yet predicted that she is hopeful that a number of
those superdelegates, and their thousands of votes, could be
convinced to switch their support from Clinton to her husband.
The Daily Beast spoke to Mrs. Sanders with just hours to go before
Bernie Sanders's rally in New York's Washington Square, and just a
week until New York Democrats pick a primary winner.
"I know Donald Trump has complained about the system," Mrs. Sanders
said.
"We're not going to complain about it. We knew the rules going in.
We don't like the rules. We don't think it's good for democracy. I
think it's crazy that in New York anybody who wanted to vote for
Bernie had to make a change last October to say they were in the
Democratic Party. Anybody who is independent cannot vote."
Mrs. Sanders said her husband's campaign was "trying to reinvigorate
the party and we are. We are bringing many, many more people in
across the country and yet in New York they're slamming the door on
those people. They can't have a voice. That seems counterproductive
to what the Democratic Party wants to accomplish in terms of winning
not just the presidency, but to win governors' seats and seats in
the House and
She dismissed Clinton campaign claims that Bernie's camp wasanything," she said, laughing.
attempting to "rig" the election by "flipping" the votes of
superdelegates. "How could we be rigging it? We're not in charge of
"Superdelegates, first off, I think, are silly. They're 30 percenthalf.
of the vote that a candidate needs to become the nominee. How fair
is that? I am a voter. I have one vote, yet you're a superdelegate
and count for thousands and thousands of votes. That doesn't make
any sense at all. 'One person, one vote' is what democracy is
supposed to be about."
The "rigging" claims did not "make sense," Mrs. Sanders said.
"In 2008, many superdelegates had signed up for Hillary Clinton,
very early, before Barack Obama."
The same was true this year, though this time the opponent was
Bernie Sanders, she said.
"In the end in 2008, the superdelegates moved to Barack Obama. This
year, the superdelegates have not been counted yet, their votes have
not been cast. Some are saying now they support Hillary Clinton.
About
"If the superdelegates are using their judgment, my hope is thathear."
they are looking at what is happening in this race-that he [Bernie
Sanders] has won eight of the nine most recent races, that he has
far better polling numbers against all the Republicans, that he can
get not just Democrats but Independents.
"Even in his last Senate race, 25 percent of Republicans in our
state voted for him-and we can do that nationally as well. He's in a
much better position to be the Democratic Party candidate.
Superdelegates will make up their minds. It has nothing to do with
rigging, but it could happen just like it happened in 2008."
On the more rancorous exchanges between the Sanders and Clinton
campaigns, Mrs. Sanders said, "I think if you compare it to the
Republicans it's nothing. I think it's been difficult for us to have
distortions of the record, when really what we want to focus on is a
clear choice between the two candidates."
For Mrs. Sanders, "there is a stark difference" between her husband
and Hillary Clinton, "in a number of areas. That's what we should be
talking about, that's good for democracy, that's what people need to
When asked if she ever advised her husband to moderate his tone, Mrs.Clinton back then."
Sanders said he was being criticized over a statement he made in
response to the Clinton strategy to "disqualify and defeat" him,
"and worry about uniting the party later."
Mrs. Sanders was referring to an unnamed top Clinton advisor's
battle plan, as conveyed to CNN last week.
"Then we watched surrogate after surrogate and Secretary Clinton
herself on the air attempting to disqualify him, which means to make
[him seem] unqualified," Mrs. Sanders said.
She said that her husband, in response, "had said 'Let's talk about
the issues' about what makes somebody unqualified.
"His attempt may not have been as articulate as we might have
preferred, but his attempt was to turn the page to say, 'Let's look
at
trade: Secretary Clinton is pro-free trade, pro-NAFTA, pro permanent
trade relations with China, and pro-TPP [the Trans-Pacific
Partnership], until the very end, after it was too late.'"
Her husband, she added, had noted that Clinton had voted in favor of
the Iraq War, having seen the same information that had led Bernie
Sanders to vote against it.
Mrs. Sanders said, "Secretary Clinton has a regime change policy
that was borne out of Libya. Bernie does not believe in regime
change policy. He was trying to say, 'OK, if you're looking at who's
qualified, let's look at the qualifications you're looking for as a
voter.' I think the media has made more of it than either candidate."
This reporter asked Mrs. Sanders if she was concerned that voters in
both the Clinton and Sanders camps were so partisan they would not
vote for the other Democratic candidate in a general election. She
replied that "they [Democrat voters] were feeling annoyed at both
sides. If Bernie wins, hopefully Secretary Clinton's supporters will
support him, and if she wins we hope our supporters will support her.
It's nowhere near as rancorous as it was between Barack Obama and
Hilary
Would her husband support Clinton if she became the candidate?same ideas.'"
"I think both of them will support the other," said Mrs. Sanders.
Her husband's temperament has also come under scrutiny. When asked
if she had ever advised him to "take it down a notch," Mrs. Sanders
said, "No, no, no.
"I think everybody has seemed annoyed at times," she added. "I
remember Secretary Clinton looking quite angry. I think we're
talking about important issues that affect people's lives. 25
percent of our children in America live in poverty. Yeah, that's
something to be angry about. Climate change is real, and the fossil
fuel industry is pouring tons and tons of money into campaign
contributions. That's something to be angry about.
"You look: 18,500 people in the South Bronx last week. Nobody was
worried about his temperament. They were wild about his ideas he was
bringing forth and saying, 'We are with you, we are going to work
for the
When asked if her husband's success had surprised them both-givenfair shake."
that early consensus seemed to favor a smooth coronation for
Clinton-Mrs.
Sanders
replied: "We knew that his ideas were mainstream American ideas. If
he had a fair hearing we knew they would resonate. We were surprised
at how fervently they have been embraced by young voters, and how
many people who are disenfranchised voters: people who had given up
on the system are coming back.
"It has been humbling and quite an honor to have that kind of
support and encouragement and commitment to the future. So I think
we were surprised to that. We were more intellectually thinking they
would resonate. We didn't realize emotionally how much they would
resonate both for people and for us."
For Mrs. Sanders personally, the campaign has proven "exhilarating
and wonderful in terms of meeting so many people around the country,
and learning about specific issues"-she cited "Latinos," "immigration,"
and "Native Americans"-but also in terms of understanding and
hearing that the general issues that Bernie Sanders raises are, she
said, issues of concern for all Americans.
"They want a government of the people, by the people and for the
people.
They want a government that recognizes that at the center of policy
should be a concern for Americans' quality of life, and their
ability to live life in security and dignity by just working hard
and getting a
Had the campaign bought her more or less turmoil than she had expected?
"I wouldn't say turmoil," Mrs. Sanders replied. "I would say it's
hard to be away from the kids and the grandkids as much, but it's an
honor to be able to be part of this. And it's been very invigorating
for me to see the support, interest, and commitment to transform
this country to what we all want it to be ideally, and people are
willing to do the work and support Bernie in that endeavor. It's
wonderful."I asked Mrs. Sanders if she had thought about the possibility ofrace.
living in the White House.
"I haven't, you know," she said. "I mean, I'm more focused on what
we could do if he gets into the White House."
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not valid.
Bernie Sanders with his wife Jane Sanders. (photo: Brian
Snyder/Reuters)
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/04/13/jane-sanders-we-wou
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d
-vote-
hillary-but-the-superdelegate-system-sucks.htmlhttp://www.thedailybe
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t.com/
articles/2016/04/13/jane-sanders-we-would-vote-hillary-but-the-super
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legate
-system-sucks.html
Jane Sanders: Bernie and I Will Vote Hillary if We Have To By Tim
Teeman, The Daily Beast
14 April 16
In a candid interview with Tim Teeman, a straight-shooting Jane
Sanders talks superdelegates, her husband's temperament, the need
for party unity, and missing her family.
ane Sanders and her husband Bernie will support Hillary Clinton if
the latter beats Bernie Sanders in the Democratic presidential
nomination
Senate."
Mrs. Sanders, in an interview with The Daily Beast on Wednesday,
said they would hope Bernie's supporters would follow their lead.
Conversely, if Bernie Sanders secured the nomination, Mrs. Sanders
said she hoped Clinton and her supporters would support him.
In a wide-ranging, candid interview, Mrs. Sanders also said the
superdelegate system-currently weighted significantly in Clinton's
favor-was unfair, yet predicted that she is hopeful that a number of
those superdelegates, and their thousands of votes, could be
convinced to switch their support from Clinton to her husband.
The Daily Beast spoke to Mrs. Sanders with just hours to go before
Bernie Sanders's rally in New York's Washington Square, and just a
week until New York Democrats pick a primary winner.
"I know Donald Trump has complained about the system," Mrs. Sanders
said.
"We're not going to complain about it. We knew the rules going in.
We don't like the rules. We don't think it's good for democracy. I
think it's crazy that in New York anybody who wanted to vote for
Bernie had to make a change last October to say they were in the
Democratic Party. Anybody who is independent cannot vote."
Mrs. Sanders said her husband's campaign was "trying to reinvigorate
the party and we are. We are bringing many, many more people in
across the country and yet in New York they're slamming the door on
those people. They can't have a voice. That seems counterproductive
to what the Democratic Party wants to accomplish in terms of winning
not just the presidency, but to win governors' seats and seats in
the House and
She dismissed Clinton campaign claims that Bernie's camp wasanything," she said, laughing.
attempting to "rig" the election by "flipping" the votes of
superdelegates. "How could we be rigging it? We're not in charge of
"Superdelegates, first off, I think, are silly. They're 30 percenthalf.
of the vote that a candidate needs to become the nominee. How fair
is that? I am a voter. I have one vote, yet you're a superdelegate
and count for thousands and thousands of votes. That doesn't make
any sense at all. 'One person, one vote' is what democracy is
supposed to be about."
The "rigging" claims did not "make sense," Mrs. Sanders said.
"In 2008, many superdelegates had signed up for Hillary Clinton,
very early, before Barack Obama."
The same was true this year, though this time the opponent was
Bernie Sanders, she said.
"In the end in 2008, the superdelegates moved to Barack Obama. This
year, the superdelegates have not been counted yet, their votes have
not been cast. Some are saying now they support Hillary Clinton.
About
"If the superdelegates are using their judgment, my hope is thathear."
they are looking at what is happening in this race-that he [Bernie
Sanders] has won eight of the nine most recent races, that he has
far better polling numbers against all the Republicans, that he can
get not just Democrats but Independents.
"Even in his last Senate race, 25 percent of Republicans in our
state voted for him-and we can do that nationally as well. He's in a
much better position to be the Democratic Party candidate.
Superdelegates will make up their minds. It has nothing to do with
rigging, but it could happen just like it happened in 2008."
On the more rancorous exchanges between the Sanders and Clinton
campaigns, Mrs. Sanders said, "I think if you compare it to the
Republicans it's nothing. I think it's been difficult for us to have
distortions of the record, when really what we want to focus on is a
clear choice between the two candidates."
For Mrs. Sanders, "there is a stark difference" between her husband
and Hillary Clinton, "in a number of areas. That's what we should be
talking about, that's good for democracy, that's what people need to
When asked if she ever advised her husband to moderate his tone, Mrs.Clinton back then."
Sanders said he was being criticized over a statement he made in
response to the Clinton strategy to "disqualify and defeat" him,
"and worry about uniting the party later."
Mrs. Sanders was referring to an unnamed top Clinton advisor's
battle plan, as conveyed to CNN last week.
"Then we watched surrogate after surrogate and Secretary Clinton
herself on the air attempting to disqualify him, which means to make
[him seem] unqualified," Mrs. Sanders said.
She said that her husband, in response, "had said 'Let's talk about
the issues' about what makes somebody unqualified.
"His attempt may not have been as articulate as we might have
preferred, but his attempt was to turn the page to say, 'Let's look
at
trade: Secretary Clinton is pro-free trade, pro-NAFTA, pro permanent
trade relations with China, and pro-TPP [the Trans-Pacific
Partnership], until the very end, after it was too late.'"
Her husband, she added, had noted that Clinton had voted in favor of
the Iraq War, having seen the same information that had led Bernie
Sanders to vote against it.
Mrs. Sanders said, "Secretary Clinton has a regime change policy
that was borne out of Libya. Bernie does not believe in regime
change policy. He was trying to say, 'OK, if you're looking at who's
qualified, let's look at the qualifications you're looking for as a
voter.' I think the media has made more of it than either candidate."
This reporter asked Mrs. Sanders if she was concerned that voters in
both the Clinton and Sanders camps were so partisan they would not
vote for the other Democratic candidate in a general election. She
replied that "they [Democrat voters] were feeling annoyed at both
sides. If Bernie wins, hopefully Secretary Clinton's supporters will
support him, and if she wins we hope our supporters will support her.
It's nowhere near as rancorous as it was between Barack Obama and
Hilary
Would her husband support Clinton if she became the candidate?same ideas.'"
"I think both of them will support the other," said Mrs. Sanders.
Her husband's temperament has also come under scrutiny. When asked
if she had ever advised him to "take it down a notch," Mrs. Sanders
said, "No, no, no.
"I think everybody has seemed annoyed at times," she added. "I
remember Secretary Clinton looking quite angry. I think we're
talking about important issues that affect people's lives. 25
percent of our children in America live in poverty. Yeah, that's
something to be angry about. Climate change is real, and the fossil
fuel industry is pouring tons and tons of money into campaign
contributions. That's something to be angry about.
"You look: 18,500 people in the South Bronx last week. Nobody was
worried about his temperament. They were wild about his ideas he was
bringing forth and saying, 'We are with you, we are going to work
for the
When asked if her husband's success had surprised them both-givenfair shake."
that early consensus seemed to favor a smooth coronation for
Clinton-Mrs.
Sanders
replied: "We knew that his ideas were mainstream American ideas. If
he had a fair hearing we knew they would resonate. We were surprised
at how fervently they have been embraced by young voters, and how
many people who are disenfranchised voters: people who had given up
on the system are coming back.
"It has been humbling and quite an honor to have that kind of
support and encouragement and commitment to the future. So I think
we were surprised to that. We were more intellectually thinking they
would resonate. We didn't realize emotionally how much they would
resonate both for people and for us."
For Mrs. Sanders personally, the campaign has proven "exhilarating
and wonderful in terms of meeting so many people around the country,
and learning about specific issues"-she cited "Latinos," "immigration,"
and "Native Americans"-but also in terms of understanding and
hearing that the general issues that Bernie Sanders raises are, she
said, issues of concern for all Americans.
"They want a government of the people, by the people and for the
people.
They want a government that recognizes that at the center of policy
should be a concern for Americans' quality of life, and their
ability to live life in security and dignity by just working hard
and getting a
Had the campaign bought her more or less turmoil than she had expected?
"I wouldn't say turmoil," Mrs. Sanders replied. "I would say it's
hard to be away from the kids and the grandkids as much, but it's an
honor to be able to be part of this. And it's been very invigorating
for me to see the support, interest, and commitment to transform
this country to what we all want it to be ideally, and people are
willing to do the work and support Bernie in that endeavor. It's
I asked Mrs. Sanders if she had thought about the possibility of
living in the White House.
"I haven't, you know," she said. "I mean, I'm more focused on what
we could do if he gets into the White House."
http://e-max.it/posizionamento-siti-web/socialize
http://e-max.it/posizionamento-siti-web/socialize
