She wouldn't be that stupid. She'd lose her Democratic billionaire donors.
There are certain things that the Democrats won't do, at least not things that
they can be caught doing. On the other hand, the value system of the Republican
base, especially billionaires like the Mercers and the Koches, are very
different.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Roger Loran Bailey
(Redacted sender "rogerbailey81" for DMARC)
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 8:19 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: It's All About the Midterms: Trump Took Those
Children Hostage to Stoke His Base
Frankly, it wouldn't surprise me a bit if Hillary would agree to putting
children in cages.
On 6/21/2018 3:45 PM, Miriam Vieni wrote:
As I just stated in response to a previous post from Carl, I believe that the
position stated byboth of you is wrong. That idea, that there's no difference
between the Capitalist parties, is one that I've come across in reading books
about leftists who were saying the same thing years and years ago.
Apparently, it's an article of faith like, "God is good" for which I've seen
no evidence. Of course, Bill Clinton presided over the sanctions against Iraq
which were said to have killed 500,000 children. And it is the US sanctions
imposed on North Korea which caused starvation there. The difference is that
given enough time, the Republicans will do the same thing here, and it won't
take long, given their current budget and the one planned for 2019. And do
you really believe that Hillary would agree to children being taken from
their parents and placed in cages here? She'd agree to not allowing them into
the US or sending them back to their deaths in Honduras, but she's a canny
enough politician not to take babies away from parents and put children in
cages in the US. It's a matter of degree. Like, I'd prefer American
anti-semitism to nazi concentration camps.
Miriamed
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Carl Jarvis
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 2:50 PM
To: Roger Loran Bailey <rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx>
Cc: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: It's All About the Midterms: Trump Took
Those Children Hostage to Stoke His Base
Very true, Roger. And speaking of that "Gentle Woman" Hillary Clinton, that
is no Dove fluttering about her "kindly head".
Carl Jarvis
On 6/21/18, Roger Loran Bailey <rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx> wrote:
You might put it this way. It doesn't really make much difference
whether the Donald is doing it or if the Hillary is doing it. Or, if
the Hillary might not commit that particular atrocity then it doesn't
make a difference if she would have been committing her own atrocities.
On 6/21/2018 1:43 PM, Carl Jarvis wrote:
Exactly the point, Miriam. Given different situations, we are able
to arrive at different conclusions. And we can justify our
positions, even if they contradict one another.
But I do see a difference in my position regarding not voting for
Clinton and my accepting a very meager contract to serve blind and
low vision seniors. Hillary Clinton was the candidate for the
reorganized Democratic Party. This Party had turned its back on its
former members in favor of the financial support of a growing group
of Billionaires. My people, the working class, had no seat in the
new Party. The Party, in effect, left me, rather than the other way
around. So I voted for Bernie in the primary, and Jill Stein in the
general. My state went to Clinton, so you might say that we all
wasted our vote. What we need is a new Labor Party, a Working Class
backed Party. Until that time, I'll find local Democratic and
Progressive candidates to support, and not waste my vote on national
elections where I must pick between two Ruling Class candidates.
Which brings me back to the reason I have decided to sign a very
poorly funded contract. Throughout our rural counties on the
Olympic Peninsula, there are growing numbers of older people losing
their sight. While there are a strong network of support services
for older people, they are not widely publicized. But at least our
Program puts us in contact with many people who would otherwise
never know of our existence. Between our visits and our encouraging
them to participate in one of the local support groups, they do have
more positive support than if we had not met them.
This year, beginning July 1, we will only serve Clallam and
Jefferson counties. These two counties are far more rural than
Kitsap county or the Gig Harbor area, which we have given up. If we
did not continue to serve in Clallam and Jefferson, there would be
no in-home services provided.
So now you have my flawed rationale
Carl Jarvis
On 6/21/18, Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Given your stance, why did you feel that it was wrong to vote for
Hillary as a compromise, in order to prevent Trump from winning?
Isn't that the same thing as taking responsibility for providing
inadequate services to your clients as opposed to providing no
services at all?
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Carl Jarvis
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 11:39 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: It's All About the Midterms: Trump
Took Those Children Hostage to Stoke His Base
"The ICE man cometh"!
Humans have the great ability to compartmentalize.
This is how I can be an Agnostic and my sweet cousin can be a
Lutheran, and we can both shake our heads over just how stubborn
the other one is. .
Or how Mostafa is able to sound just like a raving Red Neck White
Supremacist, even as he criticizes their inability to see the
Truth, as Mostafa sees it.
Add to our clever ability to twist reality, our ability to justify
our behavior based upon that which motivates us. If I want to keep
my job and enjoy the level of life I now experience, then I will
need to figure out how to keep separate my life and that of the
people I am herding into holding pens. Think of how many Jews were
sent to their death during WW II, by young German family men.
As a young man, I might have resigned from the IL Program. If I
had nothing to lose I could see myself organizing a group of blind
people who were receiving far too meager services through this
poorly funded, poorly staffed Program. But here I am, signing
another inadequately funded contract.
I
defend my decision by telling myself that at least we are providing
some assistance, as well as making a critical contact with people
who might otherwise never become connected.
Could I take a job that called for me to take children from their
parents, put them in cages and feed them garbage? I like to think
I'd never stoop to such a low, self-serving level.
Carl Jarvis
On 6/20/18, Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
But I wonder about all the ICE employees who have been involved in
this atrocity. What kind of people would separate babies and
toddlers from their parents? Before the spate of articles and
discussions of this appeared, my lovely young home health aide
asked me if I could see a picture on her phone if she showed it to
me. I said that unfortunately, I couldn't, but she should describe
it. What she described was the cages in the converted Walmart
warehouse with children in them, and the children had these mylar
blankets which, I gather, look sort of metallic. She didn't know what
they were called.
I read about them later that day. So there were pictures of
children in cages and there's an audio of them crying and
screaming. And of course, Donald Moore, our blind arch
conservative whose a member of the ACBNY list, asserted in
response to someone writing about the children that quote, those photos
were found to be from 2014, unquote.
He discovered this non fact from Fox News. So then there are
people saying that the list shouldn't be discussing the matter
because it's unrelated to the aims of the organization. I wonder
if they'd continue to feel that the list should only concentrate
on business as usual if there were videos of children being gased to
death.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Carl Jarvis
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2018 8:41 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: It's All About the Midterms: Trump
Took Those Children Hostage to Stoke His Base
It's all about Greed. Greed has been with the Human Race since
the biggest and strongest Neanderthal boinked his neighbor over
the head and stole his woman.
With the adaptation of Man, replacing Neanderthal, Greed simply
switched horses...as they say. For thousands of years Man has
been driven by Greed, regardless of national, religious or
political titles. Greed is also a liar and a coward, never taking
responsibility for its actions. Through its Human Puppets, like
Donald Trump or Jeff Sessions, Greed shoves the blame on everybody
else.
The closest examination shows no redeeming virtues for
Greed...unless you enjoy grabbing that which belongs to others.
Carl Jarvis
On 6/20/18, Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
It's All About the Midterms: Trump Took Those Children Hostage to
Stoke His Base By Juan Cole, Informed Comment
20 June 18
Journalists have almost certainly misunderstood the Trump White
House when they pen this morning's flurry of articles and
television commentary about the White House abruptly being
"worried" about the fall-out of the Family Separation Policy
announced in May by John Kelly and reaffirmed this month by
Attorney General Jeff Sessions and Eminence Grise Jr., Stephen Miller.
This "worry" is said to have impelled Trump and his aides to have
Department of Homeland Security head Kirstjen Neilsen fly up
Monday from New Orleans to tell lies about the policy instead of
Sarah Sanders (this move, despite what some reports speculate,
almost certainly had nothing to do with Sanders being reluctant
to go on lying about the Trump policy and attributing it to the
Congressional Democrats, which is a lie.)
Here is an alternative scenario. This crew are psychopaths and,
as their attempt to blame the Democrats for their own policy
shows, unrepentant professional prevaricators. They don't have a
kind bone in their bodies, and on the contrary, spontaneously
orgasm at the thought of the opportunity to be sadistic to others.
The Family Separation Policy is not something they regret or
worry about, it is something that gets them off.
But it can't be explained entirely by mere sadism, though the
policy certainly wells up from that motivation.
The Trump White House is still being advised by Steve Bannon, and
Bannon is on record that immigration is a winning issue for
Trump- that whenever and however it becomes a headline, Trump
wins and the Democrats lose.
Trump desperately needs to have the GOP do well in the November
midterms.
Those midterms are a big question mark. Trump has an advantage
inasmuch as voters in off years when the presidency is not being
voted on tend to be whiter, richer and older than the voters in
presidential election years.
Laid against that general advantage is the tendency for the
president's party to lose seats in the midterm. American voters,
whether they strategize this issue or not, appear to like split
government and don't usually like to put all their eggs
electorally in the basket of one party. Election years in which
one party does well, such as 2004 or 2008 or 2016, are usually
followed by years in which voters put the opposite party to the
one in the White House in charge of Congress.
What Trump needs to win the midterms is for his base to be
exercised and excited, and for the Democratic base to be
prevented from voting through various forms of voter suppression.
These include voter i.d., purging rolls of voters in good
standing, and spreading fake news about Democratic Party candidates and
policies.
Ripping infants out of the arms of their mothers excites Trump's base.
Some 46% of Republicans approve of the policy, according to an
Ipsos poll done for the Daily Beast. And only 32% of Republicans
disagree.
Trump's base has been primed to believe that undocumented
immigration into the United States is suddenly a huge crisis. It
isn't. More Mexican-Americans, for instance, leave annually than
come in. There may have been a problem in the 1980s and 1990s.
But not now. The reason we should not call the policy Zero
Tolerance is that the Bush and Obama administrations deported
some 400,000 persons a year. There was already zero tolerance.
What
changed was the charging of asylum seekers and economic migrants
as criminals and the consequent removal of their children to
concentration camps. His base will likely agree that the
situation was created by the Democrats.
If Trump's policy is overturned, he can use that action to expand
his base, by playing the martyr to liberal perfidy. He can also
accuse Democrats of letting criminal gangsters (never mind that
they are two years old) into the country. Trump has drunk the Bannon
Kool-aid.
So while it may be, as corporate media tells us, that only a
third of Americans agree with the Family Separation Policy, that
statistic is irrelevant. In a typical midterm, only about a third
of the electorate comes out to vote. If 46% of Republicans come
out, but, as in Ohio and elsewhere, democratic votes can be
suppressed by purging the voting registration rolls, then Trump
wins. After all, that is how he got into the White House in the first
place.
Trump's base comprises Evangelicals and others who often have an
authoritarian mindset, who will likely believe his lie that
Family Separation is a Democratic project, and based on
Democratic legislation.
Fox
will help spread this monstrous falsehood. Nothing in the law
requires Trump to prosecute refugees who seek asylum in the US
for criminal misdemeanors (which triggers the family separation,
since children are not allowed to accompany parents into a
Federal
penitentiary.)
So far from fretting or regretting, Trump is using the
immigration issue to whip up sentiment in his base, in hopes that
it will turn into a strong showing in the midterms and allow
Trump to keep control of Congress.
You might say, America is better than this.
And I will say, the proof is in the pudding.
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