Miriam, experience has taught me that there is a world of difference between
the Irish Catholic nun you describe and the French Catholic nuns that taught me
versus the modern day Dominican nuns. In my case most of the nuns that taught
me were born and raised in the very late 19th century and joined the convent
right after 8th grade. They were very much products of that 19th century
anti-Semitism you spoke about in another message.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Miriam Vieni
Sent: Friday, November 24, 2017 11:24 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Freedom of speech
Mr. Trump is not a knowledgeable person of good will.
As for the nuns of your experience, I have known, only a very few nuns and I
can't speak for their beliefs about the holocaust. However, the one who is an
old friend of mine and who is 86 years old, and the Dominican community in
Virginia, of which she is a member, are not Holocaust deniers, nor are they
Trump supporters. The Irish Catholic eighth grade teacher whom I had in 1950,
might possibly have been one, however.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Frank Ventura
Sent: Friday, November 24, 2017 10:05 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Freedom of speech
Miriam, I agreed with all you said until the very last line where you said
"knowledgeable people of good will" That is a very tenuous describer. For
example many Americans would consider Catholic Nuns "knowledgeable people of
good will". However, it was the nuns that in the 70s an 80s were teaching young
people of my generation that the holocaust was a lie, the Jews sold themselves
into labor and death camps for profit; and of course our favorite referral to
the German Nazi party as "very fine people". Does that sound familiar?
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Miriam Vieni
Sent: Friday, November 24, 2017 9:40 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Freedom of speech
Bob,
Your facts are incorrect. They are based on confusion and stereotype. I will
respond to you this one time and then I will no longer have this particular
discussion with you.
Not all Jewish people are Zionists. My background is Jewish and I am not a
supporter of Israel. There are many Jews who do not support Israel. But there
are many who do and they do so for a variety of complicated reasons.
One of the reasons is that many of us were lied to about how and why the
Falfour Declaration came to be and what happened when the State of Israel was
declared. The fact that Israel and the US are acting together with Ssaudi
Arabia to attempt to dominate the Middle East at this point in history, has
very little to do with what was happening to Jews and Europeans and Americans
and Palaestinians in the nineteenth century.
Jews were a hated minority in Europe and they were allowed few areas of the
society in which they could function. However, they were permitted to handle
finances. It doesn't follow that they were powerful or directing what was
happening in Christian countries. The leaders of Christian countries
scapegoated them, blamed all their countries' problems on them, just like Mr.
Trump scapegoats Muslims and Mexican immigrants today. The reason that so many
American Jews objected to Mr. Trump's Muslim bans is that they understood that
these bans are precisely the kinds of things that have been done to Jews in the
past.
When you say that you disagree about how many people were eliminated during the
Nazi genocide of the Jews, (and also of homosexuals, Gypsies, disabled people,
and communists), you are denying a reality that you have been taught by your
leaders to deny in the same way that so many Americans deny the fact that human
behavior is causing climate change. Denials of fact won't make the facts go
away. You are free to say whatever you please, but your opinions will not be
respected by knowledgeable people of good will.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Bob
Sent: Friday, November 24, 2017 3:35 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Freedom of speech
I disagree with you.
Even if we suppose the occurrence of this carnage by the Nazis, the number six
million is exaggerated. The reality is, Jews bribed Christians and through the
commencement of Protestantism, they were capable of fully directing Christians
to stand by their interest. Look until today, how Christians became a held
device at Jewish hands. Christians aided them to establish a statehood in
occupied Palestine. And, through enforcing their military strength, Christians
stand behind daily Israeli crimes. I challenge anyone anywhere in the west who
has authority or he is a head of state to just utter a word about Israel and
its inhumane practices. The reason the fibbed Holocaust account couldn't be
questioned, examined, challenged or historically investigated, is that Jews are
Christian's major economic provider. And, if they played with fire, they will
basically be burned. Who made the global banking system that we're wholly
coerced to hold fast to today? Weren't them? The hatred of Jews is primarily
based on their long and dark history of dissimulation. When they committed
terrible massacres in Lebanon and Palestine, no one in the whole western world
stood to them in explicit opposition. Just diplomatic remarks of condemnation
have been made, so western leaders could have an egg on their face. But today,
no one dares to even criticise what Israel does. Well instead, they justify.
Freedom of speech to refute, without needing the First Amendment. As I
fathom, First Amendment is bill to the Constitution of the United States
guaranteeing the right of free expression, includes freedom of assembly,
freedom of press, freedom of religion and freedom of speech. So, does it also
include freedom of evasiveness and perhaps, fabrication?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Miriam Vieni" <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, November 24, 2017 2:59 AM
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Freedom of speech
The reason that people who question the reality of the holocaust aresociety.
criticized is that the Nazi extermination of 6 million Jews is
historical fact. People who deny this fact are considered to be
denying this particular piece of history because of their prejudice
against Jewish people.
Criticizing people for denying reality is not the same as denying them
freedom of speech.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Bob
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2017 4:53 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Freedom of speech
Freedom of speech is the right to express an opinion in public without
being restrained or censored. Ordinarily, the United States is
prejudiciously portrayed as the paragon of free expression. I
distinctly destine to pick Americanism apart. Each and everyone in
many regions across the globe is entitled to opine his opinion freely.
The United States did not invent the right of free expression. It is
not exclusive to American Constitution or its amendments. Freedom of
expression is openly practiced therein as long as Islam is incessantly
denigrated. But, if someone questioned the holocaust or its chronicle,
for instance, he is instantly subjected to counterfeit allegations of
antisemitism. This is my endeavour concern of American double
standard. When a Muslim Commits mass murder, he is unhesitatingly
labelled with perpetrating terror. However, if a white supremacist
committed mass murder with even high rate of fatalities, he is
classified as a demented and atypical individual. I have no idea how
to illustrate this plain contradiction. How could you be fairish and
oppressive simultaneously? I respect decent Americans. But, as to
Americanism, how could you consistently be guilty, jury and judge at
the same time? I do not destine to repudiate everything about your
culture. At the same time, I believe my alleged testimony is somewhat
sane and relevantly presentable. Ultimately, I sincerely wish each and
every American friend who is receiving this message a prosperous
celebration of Thanksgiving with family, friends and loved ones.
Impeachment without decisive evidence is unbearable. Affection without
practical signs is inconsiderable. Life is shorter to be unwisely
wasted in grief. Brave men are the ones hasten to proudly apologise
whenever they have committed a mistake. Faith is our eminent resort
for attaining Providential Grace.
Seductress women are gorgeous in figure, demonic in spirit. Inner
beauty lasts longer than outward one. Family is the essence of a
stable
Being blind is never the source of distress. It is rather of enormousyou wish you've met?
admiration, pride, self-esteem and substantial confidence. Autistic
children are brilliant and just lovely. Braille is my guide to
traditional edification. Assistive technology is my portal to broad
communication with people everywhere around the world. Donald Trump is
basically petulant and misanthrope. Women who seek to have a
relationship with married men are love stealers. Sugared food is
everyone's unbeatable enticement. Intimacy is beyond mere involvement
of having intercourse. It is initially about genuine affection and
closeness. Dawn is my favourite time of the day. Friday is my
favourite day of the week. I usually have chocolate biscuits and
sugarless greentea on a regular Friday morning. Indeed, these are two
strange things to combine. Medina Dates are my favourite fruit. I tend
to shop online for them on a periodical basis. Who is the famous
person
Scottish author and historian, Thomas Carlyle.
Thank you and sincerest regards, Bob
_____________________________________
