-----Original Message-----
From: miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 9:18 AM
To: 'Roger Loran Bailey' <rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: [blind-democracy] Re: Exasperation
I think that every human being deserves respect and consideration, particularly
when we're talking about how people's speech and thought are treated. I'm not
saying that we need to like everyone or agree with everyone. We can criticize
behavior and analyze ideas, but attacking people online is wrong.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Loran Bailey <rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 10:02 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [blind-democracy] Re: Exasperation
Don't you think that to deserve respect you have to earn respect and to earn
respect you have to be willing to give respect?
___
Thomas Paine
“One good schoolmaster is of more use than a hundred priests.”
― Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason
On 4/22/2020 9:50 PM, miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
Carl,
First, I want to say something about Mustafa, or rather, the responses to him
on this list. Everyone talks about him, even though he may be able to read
these posts, in very negative ways, as if he were a non person. It's
disrespectful. People call him names and describe him with very negative
adjectives. When I call Donald Trump a "crazy man" or "a murderer", I know he
isn't going to be reading my posts. It's certainly acceptable to disagree
with Mustafa. I disagree with almost everything he's written. But it isn't OK
to talk about him in the third person, just like it isn't OK to comment
publicly on list about other list members or what other list members write.
Discussion and respectful disagreements are OK. Demeaning others, either
directly or indirectly, isn't. Calling people names, even in a good natured
way, is akin to online bullying. I have chosen to block Mustafa's private
posts because I don't enjoy debating with him. It seems to me that if one
makes a different choice, the results should not be discussed on list.
But I did make some generalizations about congenitally blind people on list.
Perhaps that was unfair. I wasn't naming individual people, however. I was
talking about my direct personal experience with blind people whom I've known
personally over the years. I've met, perhaps 4 or 5 politically liberal blind
people over all of those years. There were some people who participated in
the experience at the State University near the Black Hills in South Dakota,
who may have been left of center politically. They came from various places
and I didn't get to know them all well. There are some left of center people
on the DB Review list, but they're not very left of center, just a bit. Of
course, there are bunches of people on that list who never post at all, so I
have no idea what they think.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Carl Jarvis
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:58 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Exasperation
ally Miriam, there are a goodly number of Liberal blind people on the lists
I'm active on. And there are a fair number of Radicals and Progressives.
But there are also all of those whom you identify, the self centered takers.
And the thing that truly surprises me is that they don't see it. My favorite
example, but not the only one, is Mostafa...now naming himself as Mustafa
Muhammad. Mustafa is everything he finds intolerable in the White American
Racists. Except that he has the Truth and the Light in Allah(praise His
Holy name).
But there are others, some who are very astute. There is a judge, an older
man who has lived the good life as his reward for being a staunch
conservative. But many of those who love to call me names, and believe that
they understand my sniveling ways, are people who have been on the losing end
all their lives. I can't understand what comfort they derive. Nor do I
understand the women who think that Donald Trump is a strong Christian man
who will take care of them.
But as I said to Roger, and as I've tried telling the Granite Blockhead
Mustafa, since I am not going to change anyone's beliefs, at least I can find
humor in them.
I remember so many years ago, it was pounded into our skulls that we
Americans had a Free Press, while those Commies in Russia and China were
filled with Propaganda. Which, as it turned out, was the classic example of
the Pot calling the Kettle Black.
Who said, "Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive"?
We surely have ourselves caught up in a tangled mess.
Carl Jarvis
On 4/22/20, Frank Ventura <frank.ventura@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Miriam, being conservative means not caring about anyone other than
yourself. In the '90s we called it being an objectivist. I think many
folks who were born blind failed "sandbox", if you know what I mean.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of
miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 12:52 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Exasperation
Carl,
It amazes me, how you so easily accept and enjoy participating on
blindness lists. I think that blind people, at least a majority of
those whom I've known throughout my life, are the most politically
conservative sectors of our population, even those who live in the
most urban, politically liberal parts of our country. It's rather
ironic, when you think that they've mostly attended state schools for
the blind, received public services for the blind, and when employed,
have usually worked for governmental entities. And many of them have
been unemployed and received SSI or SSDI for most of their lives.
Yet, they believe that they are somehow, different from every other
vulnerable population in our country. They are sure that no matter what,
they'll be cared for and that they deserve this special status.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Carl Jarvis
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 11:26 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Exasperation
Now there's a place where you and I differ. These encounters you've
mentioned have "exasperated" you. I have also had many such
encounters over my lifetime, but I get a chuckle out of them. In
fact, I have often thought of writing them down in a "Humorous Book
entitled, "Quaint American Humor".
It is my experience that when I'm talking with the sorts of folks you
described, I mentally decide that I am speaking to God. The effect
is the same. When I was attempting to become a true Believer, I
found that God was always too busy to really listen to me. Wise
folks would tell me, "God works in mysterious ways". I came to
believe that God was taking a long, very long coffee break.
Yesterday I posted a question asking what the organizations of the
blind were doing about the looming demise of our proud Post Office. One
answer was, "They'll come out okay. They always do".
Yes, initially I fume and fuss, but at some point I begin to chuckle
at the thought of this blind guy standing in front of a mail box with
spiderwebs hanging on it, waiting for his Talking Book to be delivered.
Another person wrote me, "UPS and Fed X will deliver our books and stuff".
I answered that those private carriers would charge far more for the
service, a service which would no longer exist since it was between
the NLS and the Post Office, and besides, those private carriers did
not deliver to the outlying rural areas of America." She replied,
"You'll always say anything just to trash President Trump". Huh? I
don't recall bringing up the name of the Pandemic Grinch.
Lately my old buddy Mostafa...or Mustafa, has been writing me
off-list. At least I hope our "conversations" are not cluttering up anyone
elses email.
Mustafa is a prime example of what it is like to attempt to persuade
a block of granite that it can think by itself.
Anyway, since we're all going to die, we might as well go out laughing.
Cordially,
Carl Jarvis...chuckle chuckle chuckle
On 4/22/20, Roger Loran Bailey <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Just dropping by to blow off some steam because I am feeling
exasperated again. I seem to feel exasperated a lot and this story
explains why.
Here is a part of a conversation I had yesterday with a relative.
She says, "I think China sent that coreena virus to us on purpose."
In case you think I am misspelling the word corona I am only
spelling it the way she pronounced it. I say, "Why do you think
that?" She says, "I heard that it came from the communist part of
China." Feeling my exasperation rising again, I say, "Which part of
China is that?"n She says, "I heard that it came from Woohoo. That
must be the communist part of China." I say, "Why do you think they sent it
on purpose?"
She says, "Because they're communists." I say, "Why would communists
want to do that?" She says, "Because communists want everyone to
die." I say, "Why do you think that?" She sighs and says, "Do you
even know what a communist is?"
At this point I am tempted to say that, yes, I know what a communist
is, but you don't have a clue what it is. Encountering ignorance
does not bother me. It always offers an opportunity to teach something.
What bothers me is, for one thing, the assumption that on a topic
that has been one of my special interests since I was a teenager and
have devoted much time studying on my own and have participated in
with a lot of time invested with other people who shared my
perspective on the subject, that I am the one who does not know what
he is talking about. And furthermore, I have explained what
communism is to her time and time again and it appears that
everything I have ever said about it just went in one ear and out
the other. Usually when I explain it as soon as I finish talking she
starts telling me about some recipe that she tried or something
similar. That should be a clue that I was not being listened to. Her
statements this time, though, showed ignorance on a number of levels
and rather than just repeat things I have told her so many times
before I decided to inform her of some other things that I have not
spent so much time on. I tried to explain something about the
geography of China and the political situation there. I also
explained that it did not make much sense that they would have
unleashed the virus on purpose when they were the ones who were first
effected and strongly effected at that.
When I paused she started telling me about the personal life of
someone she knows, but whom I have never met and am uninterested.
That is, she made it clear to me that I may as well have been
talking to passing clouds. Do you see why I spend so much time feeling
exasperated?
As I was typing this I was reminded of another incident that
happened way back when I was in college that was similarly
exasperating. Bear in mind that when this happened I was majoring in
biology, but I really don't think anyone needs to have studied
biology to understand what I was trying to say. I was working in the
cataloguing department of the school library in the work-study
program. There were some secretaries there who saw some birds
hopping around on the lawn. It was a cold winter day too. As they
were looking out the window one of them started cooing about how
they were going to have babies. I looked too and saw what they were
referring to. The other secretaries agreed with the assessment that
the birds were pregnant. I explained to them that they were seeing
the effect of the low temperature. The birds were fluffing up their
feathers to trap air and to give themselves some insulation.
That is, they were trying to keep warm. To this day I don't know why
I didn't mention anything about birds laying eggs, but it just
didn't occur to me at the time. Nevertheless, a bird's pregnancy
takes place outside of the bird's body and they do not show signs of
an impending hatching. What do I get in reply to my explanation? I
am told,"We're women so we know about things like that." Again, the
assumption was that I was the one who did not know what he was
talking about. I calmly said, "Did you know that I am a biology
major?" The reply was, "That's some kind of science, isn't it?
Doesn't it have something to do with flowers?" Again, just some steam
release about having to go
through life feeling exasperated with people. --
___
Thomas Paine
“One good schoolmaster is of more use than a hundred priests.”
― Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason
