Unfortunately, I can understand Cathy's mother's situation precisely. Perhaps
you're not developing holes in your short term memory, but I am. So I can
remember the name of my first grade teacher. But I can easily forget an
incident that occurred 2 days ago or forget to do something that I was planning
to do after lunch. So I can imagine not remembering what I'd just eaten for
lunch, although that hasn't happened to me yet. And remember, Dorothy is now in
an institution. Being in an institution is disorienting. People with dementia
do better in familiar environments. And then, there's also the possibility that
the staff is medicating her as is often done to keep residents calm and
pliable.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Carl Jarvis
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2019 2:24 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Discussions about Religion
There's no doubt about it, Miriam. I do get all lathered up at times.
However, I respect each person's beliefs. I guess that I expect others to
simply delete my babbling and go on believing as they choose. Anyway, I'll try
to be good and not make faces at the nice people. I think I don't agree with
you regarding "which came first, the chicken or the egg". I think that we are
heavily influenced by our various religions. But that will need to
wait...maybe forever...because we need to head off to visit Cathy's mother.
It's very difficult for me to wrap my head around how a mind can be so damaged
that a person lives only in the "now". We arrived yesterday and Dorothy had
just finished lunch. "What did you eat for lunch?"
Cathy asked her. "Did I eat?" Dorothy asked.
She can remember stories about events back when Cathy was a small child...or
says she does, but she has no concept of how long she's been in the rehab
facility. Sometimes she says, "I want to go home".
But when I ask her, "where's home?" she doesn't know.
Carl Jarvis
On 3/6/19, Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Carl,
So, what prompted me to say what I did was that you do, periodically,
make pronouncements about the foolishness of belief in a personal
deity. And sometimes, you make those comments in response to Mustafa
who, clearly, has a different view on the matter from your's. I never
had a religious education. My parents were nominally Jewish, which
meant that they celebrated "the high holidays", and sort of celebrated
Passover, but not according to the whole tradition. So I never had a
dramatic journey from belief to non belief. Perhaps that is why I
don't feel the need to counter arguments for the existence of God with
arguments in opposition to the existence of God. I did, as I've
mentioned before, go through a thought process, probably when I was in
college, when I formalized my own position on religion. However, given
my social work education which involved courses on human behavior,
I've never considered religion to be the major cause of human
dysfunction, just as I've never considered our economic system to be
the basic cause of human dysfunction. Rather, I see both as
expressions of how people function. But it does seem to me that
institutions, once they have been formed, have a life of their own. A
government is not the same as the individuals who are part of it. Take Obama
out of the Presidency, and he won't be planning the assassination of people
every week.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Carl Jarvis
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2019 11:22 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Discussions about Religion
Miriam wrote in part:
..."Carl may never stop wanting to make amends for having been an
Evangelical Christian in the past."
Sometimes, Miriam, I think that you have a Devilish sense of humor.
When I was young, I proudly exclaimed to one and all that I never
spent time or energy regretting my past activities...or lack thereof.
But I really do have some regrets. And I would undo some hurts that
my behavior caused others. And I would go back, if I could, and do
some of the things for which I did not have the courage to do. But my
many religious experiences, like my many political experiences, and my
many love affairs(many of them imagined), all contributed to who I am today.
My past is just that, My Past! And I make no judgements on what or
how I behaved or thought. But there are things in my past that I do
not talk about, but which are just as much a part of who I am today,
but of which I would strike from my Life's Experiences. I still fight
my own Goblins and Bogymen, and would hang my head in shame if they were
exposed.
And yet, as I say, they are also part of 83 plus years of living and
experiencing that has given me a grand trip through life.
It's true that I become a bit rabid at times when on the subject of
religion. But religion is just one thread woven into our human fabric.
But it is a thread that has strong influences on the entire fabric of Life.
After my days as a small child in Sunday School, learning about Jesus,
Santa Claus, the 3 Wise Men and a special woman who had God's baby,
and the tooth fairy, and the Easter Bunny, I left any doings with
religion until I married my first wife. I was 25, and she was 22.
She was a Christian, and insisted that I should attend church services
every Sunday, morning and evening, and midweek Bible study.
I took this on in the same way I've taken on every new facet of my
life. I began to explore and to question. At some point I became
certain that most people in our congregation were only paying lip
service, and were not true Believers. So I decided to find out what
Belief was all about. I was baptized, and gave myself over to Jesus
Christ. I accepted the existence of God, and the Holy Spirit. I
attended a "full gospel" group, and spoke in tongues and had visions.
It was an interesting time, with some unexplained happenings. But I
never found God. I did find many honest Believers who said they had
met God, but I also met many phonies and Users. After nearly ten
years, I came to understand that God was a feeling. Those who gave
themselves over to that Feeling never questioned it, and believed it
would carry them to a higher place after their life on Earth. While I
totally respect those people who are "True Believers", I could not
resolve the many contradictions, let alone the many versions that
caused more strife in the world than it resolved. As I questioned
others, the answer was the same, although expressed in many different
ways. I must "trust". I was told that God moves in mysterious
ways...I won't go into all the events that led up to my leaving the
Christian Faith, but suffice it to say that I knew that I had to be
true to myself. I could not simply trust. And to try to sneak along on
someone else's trust, well that would never work.
But the entire experience was valuable. My wife and I separated, not
over religion, butt because she could not adjust to living with a blind man.
While I was in Rehab, learning to go forward with my life, she was
alone, seeing her dreams shattered, and no one was there to lead her
through to the other side. We did marriage counseling through a Christian
Counselor.
Finally I moved out. Those were hard times, leaving my daughter behind.
But my wife and I did come to resolve our personal hurt, and stayed
friends until her death many years later. Christianity worked for my first
wife.
As she aged she developed Diabetes, cancer, and congestive heart
failure, but her Faith never wavered.
How you, Miriam, or Roger or Mostafa deal with your Faith has to be an
individual, very personal matter. And frankly, how I feel about it
should not matter to anyone else. But it is this willingness to trust
in some unknown Power, without question, that concerns me. Until we
can openly discuss and question why we behave the way we do, and how
our beliefs effect Life on Earth, we will continue to make the same
foolish mistakes over and over until we are no more.
Carl Jarvis
On 3/5/19, Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I would like to make a neutral observation. The discussions regarding
religion that have taken place among Roger, Carl, and Mustafa, do not
lead to mutual understanding or resolution of issues. Rather, they
appear to be experienced by Mustafa as attacks upon a central tenet
of his life, an important part of his identity, and thus, he attacks
back. While Roger sees these discussions as rational debate, and Carl
sees them as open discussion of personal views, Mustafa does not.
Mustafa is not going to stop believing in his faith. Roger is not
going to stop wanting to prove over and over again that he is the
more rational of the two and that his position is correct. Carl may
never stop wanting to make amends for having been an Evangelical
Christian in the past.
Miriam
