All, Atheists, Agnostic and Others.
Very interesting thoughts regarding God, or the lack of God, what
constitutes an Agnostic or an Atheist, and who gets to be the Holy One
who slaps on the Labels.
Well, since it doesn't make a whit of difference in how I see the
world, the one here or the one beyond, I remain an avowed Agnostic.
No apologies.
And I continue to dig in and stubbornly assert that God is Man Made.
Although in past times a few Gods were Woman Made. And we have made a
bunch of Saints, both male and female, as well as our Virgin Mary, who
happens to be the Mother of God, hence at least sitting on her own
throne. But to the question of how we really got here, there is no
answer yet uncovered. For us humans, it would be a worse problem than
a fly trying to figure out how that pile of cow dung got there in the
pasture.
So the larger question cannot be answered. And the lessor question,
Is there a God as described in any of our Holy Books, the answer is,
yes. These gods do really exist, in the books and in the minds of
believers. But like Alice in Wonderland, they are merely within the
covers of books and beneath the hair of Believers.
And that is the personal opinion of this Agnostic!
Carl Jarvis
And by the way, my middle initial, "A", stands for Agnostic.
Carl A. Jarvis
On 7/19/15, Alice Dampman Humel <alicedh@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Oh, I don’t know...I’ve also known many atheists and agnostics, and I’ve
also run into my fair share of, well, if not bible thumpers, because that
really is a pejorative term, then at least profoundly religious, devout
people, and I think both have their fair share of obnoxious…as I said, no
one group has that market cornered IMO.
On Jul 19, 2015, at 8:20 PM, Roger Loran Bailey (Redacted sender
"rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx" for DMARC) <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
But, as one who has known many atheists, I can assure you that the
percentage of atheists who are obnoxious atheists is miniscule compared to
the percentage of bible thumpers who are obnoxious. In fact, on the bible
thumper side it is about one hundred percent.
On 7/19/2015 5:49 PM, Alice Dampman Humel wrote:
I think you sum it up well: is there a God, I don’t know and neither do
you equals agnostic. Is there a God, no there is not equals atheist. I
wouldn’t call it so much labels as how one identifies one’s self. And you
are also right that obnoxious exists across the gamut…there are obnoxious
atheists just as there are obnoxious Bible thumpers and everywhere in
between. No belief system has the obnoxious market cornered, haha.
On Jul 19, 2015, at 4:57 PM, Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
But that is what atheists believe, that it is unknowable. I'm not
talking
about the dogmatic atheists who write about their views just as
obnoxiously
as the Evangelical Christians. But I've read about who Atheists are and
what
they believe. Before I read this stuff, that's what I thought too. But
Atheists run the gamit. Labels, I suppose, can be deceiving and
confusing.
But if someone asks me if I believe in God and my answer is that I
don't
know, then I'm an agnostic. If my answer is no, then I'm an atheist. If
they
then say, how can you say no? What is the origin of the world? What
makes
the sun shine and the birds sing? My answer is, I don't know. They then
say,
well, obviously it's God who does that. My answer is, I don't know what
you
mean by God. Saying that God does that is precisely the same to me as
saying, I don't know the cause. But if I'm afraid of how people may
react to
that, I'll just go along to get along and say, OK, you're right. there
must
be a God whose doing all this.
Miriam
________________________________
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Alice
Dampman
Humel
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 4:43 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Demon Possessed?
Again, I think for many agnostics at least, it's not even so much
uncertainty about the existence or lack thereof of a God, but rather
that it
is unknowable. To me, at least, there is a slight but significant
distinction there.
On Jul 19, 2015, at 3:44 PM, Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
But atheists say that they do not believe in a traditional God and
they do
not have the answers to how or why the world is as it is. Agnostics
say that
they do not know whether or not there is a God. Carl always, in all
of his
posts, makes clear that he thinks that God is non existent, just a
concept
created by humans. So he is not, by definition, an agnostic.
Agnostics are
not sure whether or not God exists. And Carl just said, in his
response to
me, that he calls himself an agnostic to avoid confrontations with
people.
Miriam
________________________________
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Alice
Dampman
Humel
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 2:46 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Demon Possessed?
Cowardly? Do you consider calling yourself an atheist an act of
bravery or
courage? Why?
And if Carl or someone else wants to call himself an agnostic, who
has the
right to make him call himself something else?
Maybe calling one's self an agnostic is an act of courage, because
one
admits that he, in fact, no one, really knows one way or the other?
Saying
"I don't know" is difficult for some people.
And if all the different races, even blind people demand to be
called what
they want to be called at any given time, then why shouldn't
agnostics have
the same right?
You wouldn't try to make an African-American call himself a Negro
instead,
so IMO, the agnostic has the same right, particularly because
whether anyone
else likes it or not, there is a difference in the two concepts,
agnostic
and atheist.
On Jul 19, 2015, at 12:41 PM, Roger Loran Bailey (Redacted sender
"rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx" for DMARC) <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
That is what I keep trying to tell Carl. An agnostic is just an
atheist who either hasn't figured it out yet or is too cowardly to
admit to
being an atheist. And that applied to me when I was calling myself
an
agnostic too. Remember that I told that story about how when I was
twelve
years old I was flat out asked if I was an atheist. Of course I was,
but
until then I had never thought of the word in connection with myself
and had
only heard it in contexts in which it represented an incredible
evil. I did
not start calling myself an atheist until I was eighteen and that
was when
someone challenged my label for myself by pointing out that I kept
making
atheist arguments while calling myself an agnostic.
On 7/19/2015 9:50 AM, Miriam Vieni wrote:
Carl, You are an atheist, but too chicken too call yourself
one. All of us
who do not believe that the world is operated by a God to
whom we can pray
for special favors, all of us who say that we do not have
the answers to why
things are as they are, we are atheists. Agnostics are
people who are not
sure whether or not there is the kind of God that the
religions worship. My
husband would never take a stand on the question because, he
said, he wanted
to "hedge his bets". He didn't want to be kept out of
heaven just in case
there might be one.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Carl Jarvis
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 1:28 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Demon Possessed?
Ah, those Atheists. Without Demons would indicate
blamelessness.
Purity of heart. Strong and able to defend their Being from
the corruption
of Demons.
As an Agnostic, I just can't say if I'm possessed or not.
Years ago I was at a gathering with my dad. A fellow came
up to him and
they began talking. At some point the fellow asked dad if
he knew the phone
number for a mutual friend. Dad pulled out his little
spiral notebook that
he carried in his shirt pocket at all times. He patted the
book as he drew
it out. "My brain," he told the man.
And so it is, in my humble opinion, with those who carry
their Bible
everywhere they go. That book is their brain. If it isn't
in that book, or
if they can't figure out how to "interpret" its words in a
way to prove
their point, then it simply does not exist. You see, Roger,
the Bible
thumpers will miss the point because they have already
concluded that
Atheists themselves, are the Demons and Devils.
Carl Jarvis
On 7/18/15, Roger Loran Bailey <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
I just ran across this comment on Facebook. The
bible thumpers will
without doubt miss the implications. The comment is,
"Have you ever
noticed that if there is one group of people who are
never possessed
by demons it is atheists?"
