I love the Christmas music...the old songs prior to, "It
s been a Blue, Blue Christmas".
The Messiah always moves me. And the Nutcracker Suite thrills me.
But Christmas as a whole is so corrupt that is should be banned right
along with Corporate Capitalism. Remember the words in that old tune,
I'll be home for Christmas? It was written from the perception of a
soldier in a fox hole in a war torn world, longing for the warmth and
comfort of his family. And the line I'm thinking of goes,..."And
Presents on the Tree"...Think of it! How about a tree big enough to
hang a 70 inch flat screen TV on?
Christmas once was a quiet time when families gathered and basked in
the warmth and love each one brought. That was the "gift" in early
America, before Madison Avenue got their teeth into it.
Our big family time is the four day Thanksgiving weekend. Not because
we believe that the European Invaders sat down and had a feast with
the Indians, but simply because it's a long weekend when most of our
family can come and relax together. This year 17 of us sat down
together. Only two were missing. Of course that is the Jarvis Clan.
Cathy's family no longer hold big gatherings except for Cathy's
mother's birthday in July.
Carl Jarvis
On 12/2/17, Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Oh, Christmas, this season is truly a symptom of human insanity. People
start talking about how pressured they feel, how busy they are, how they
must get all their Christmas shopping done. Every year, they spend hundreds
of dollars, buying presents for a variety of people, things that people
don't need, because this is what is expected. Remember Christmas Clubs?
Banks did people the favor of setting up no interest one year accounts so
they could save in order to buy all those gifts. And then, everyone in one's
life, the mailman, the security guards in my building, the superintendant of
my building, the garbage men, (when I owned my house), expect money for
Christmas. And the DB Review list, starting at the beginning of November, a
huge number of its members re and reread books about Christmas and review
them. They do this every year. My father was a simple man with no education
beyond elementary school, but he told me the truth about America when I came
home from school with complaints about the prayers that we had to say in
Assembly each week, and the Christian hymns we sang. He said, "Whatever they
tell you, this is a Christian country". It is a perverted form of
Christianity, as Carl explains, but the season provides people with a
feeling of belonging and purpose and escape from reality. All those pretty
colored lights and silver bells and songs like, "I'll Be Home For
Christmas".
Miriam
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Carl Jarvis
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2017 11:30 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: Bob Evans <ebob824@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Christmas Crisis
Bob,
Regardless of all the Fairy Tales about a wonderful Afterlife, we only have
the word of Men, telling us that it exists. Men set down the words in all
of our Holy Books. We are told that we must accept in Faith, these Truths.
But do you accept the words from the mouth of Donald Trump? Or Barack
Obama? Or George Bush II? Absolute power is achieved when we are convinced
of the Truth without having the need to have it proven to us. Donald Trump
would have us believe that he will return us to our former Greatness. But
is he doing this? His devoted followers believe he is. And there is
absolutely no actual evidence that he is doing that. But that doesn't
bother his dedicated Believers. Indeed, they have Created an entire Make
Believe History.
So, is that the Real World? Or is your world the Real World? Or is mine?
None of us agree and none of us can give proof positive that we are in the
Real World.
I find much to respect in the Scriptures of All Faiths. The words of the
great prophets can make profound differences in people's outlook on life.
But nowhere is there evidence of a Life Beyond this Life. I have worked
with many elderly blind people who have slowly forgotten their past. One
woman could no longer remember how to speak. She eventually starved to
death because she no longer knew how to eat. Do you have proof that her
Soul has been held safe, despite the deterioration of her brain?
While I believe that we are all part of the same Energy. and that energy
will always exist as part of whatever this vast Universe is, I do not see
evidence that our individual memories will survive.
Therefor, while our energy lives eternally, that energy that makes us
individuals will no longer exist.
But then, that's my reality. and I'm stuck with it.
Carl Jarvis
On 12/2/17, Bob Evans <ebob824@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Well, it isn't about what religion you choose, it is why do you
deceive children?
And, I really wonder about your feeling when you or Carl die.
On 11/15/17, Carl Jarvis <carjar82@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Christianity, at least in America, has been corrupted by
capitalism/commercialism. All Major Christian Sacred Days have been
commercialized. But so have Fourth of July, Veterans Day, Labor Day,
Thanksgiving, President's Day, Memorial Day. Check them out as they
come around again. "President's Day big sale!" "Mother's Day
flowers and chocolates", "Buy plenty of Blatz Beer and settle back to
watch the Turkey Day football game".
There are no more "special Days". There are only days that offer
retailers the opportunity to shove some more products off on an
already over saturated public. In the eyes of our International
Corporations, there are no such separations as Christians, Secular,
Jewish, Muslim, Pagan or Aborigines. There are only Consumers!
But on the other hand, we Americans have corrupted most of the
Special Holidays, altering their original purposes. Thanksgiving,
for example, is removed as a simple day of thanking our Creator for
providing for our sustenance. Instead, in a majority of American
households, it is a time for watching football, getting plastered and
stuffing our faces with food we can't afford to buy during the rest
of the year.
My Great-Great Aunt Anna Jarvis, began Mother's Day in remembrance of
all our mothers, by giving her a white carnation. Then we needed to
buy a Hallmark card, a big box of candy, take her out to dinner and
even buy her a brand new stove! And Christmas! Jesus was born, so
the records say, in a simple manger. He was born into poverty.
There was no room at the inn for the likes of this poor man, Joseph
and Mary, his pregnant young wife. So how do we honor this most
mighty of all Christian events, the birth of Jesus? By heaping
lavish gifts upon everyone including the mail carrier and the garbage
collector.
Of course December 25 never was actually the birthday of Jesus. More
likely he was born in the early Spring...maybe April 13(my birthday).
But no matter what day it was, American Corporations would have
corrupted it, too. Corporate Capitalism is like a huge, fast growing
Cancer. It will consume all in its path, until there is nothing more.
Then it will die. But we, along with all our piles of gifts and our
great Myths, will have been wiped off the face of this Universe.
Carl Jarvis
On 11/14/17, Roger Loran Bailey <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Mustafa, throughout my life most of the people I have ever met have
been what I started out on this list calling secular people. By that
I mean not only atheists, but a lot of people who profess a religion
too. It was pointed out to me that I was using the word secular
incorrectly if I was going to include people who profess a religion
and I think I came up with a better name for them, religiously
tolerant people. Even though I include atheists I think that the
most of them probably adhere to some religion. But once they profess
a religion they tend to shut up about it. There are many people whom
I knew for years and did not know anything about their religious
opinions and never even thought about it.
Then some incidental comment comes along and I find out that not
only do they consider themselves to belong to a religion, but that
they even frequently attend church. Once I find out, though, things
just continue as they always have and I never hear anything out of
them about religion again. Similarly, I am sure that most of them do
not even necessarily know that I am an atheist. It is something that
I do not keep a secret in the least, but when a person never gives
me reason to bring it up I am not particularly inclined to bring it
up myself. But incidental comments are made and on occasion someone
I have known for a long time will find out for the first time that I
am an atheist and there might be a brief comment on it, but then the
subject just doesn't come up again.
They do not try to convert me. They do not make a big deal out of it.
They just note that it is a characteristic of mine and they show
every indication that it is okay with them. This is tolerance. It is
a way that people who very sharply disagree on something can get
along and be friendly to each other. Again, I have observed this to
be the case with most people, even a large majority of people. Then
there is another kind of person. The other kind of person will
usually announce their religion immediately upon your meeting them.
Then you find out that you cannot have a conversation with them
without their pushing their religion on you. If you try walking away
they follow you around pushing their religion. They never tire of
badgering others about their religion. When I run into one of those
people who want to push their religion on me my reaction is to push
back and to argue with them. I have noticed that other people become
angry and hostile toward them. They have other obnoxious
characteristics too. They usually regard themselves to be superior
to the people whom they badger. They tend to be very self satisfied
with themselves. All in all they are just unpleasant people and the
last word I would use to describe them is tolerant. I am sorry to
say, Mustafa, that you fall into this second category. Pretty much every
email you send out pushes religion. You never shut up about it.
And like the others of that type I have ever met you provoke hostility.
Give some thought to that. Do you really want to devote your life to
making enemies? Do you really want to continue to provoke hostility
against yourself?
On 11/14/2017 12:46 PM, Bob wrote:
From the three wise men to the star of Bethlehem, most biblical
scholars don't agree on how much of the Christmas chronicle is
historically accurate.
Most Christians were brought up believeing in the Nativity tale.
Islam theoretically agrees with its essence. However, the concept
in our tradition is different in major ways. The fact that
Christians today knew what Christmas is, yet they still celebrate
it is uglier excuse from the guilt of words. Pastor Jason, I don’t
think it is ethically sound to scold Catholicism for this.
Christianity in the States doesn’t necessarily care about religious
devotion more than temporalty. Christians tend to celebrate what
they allegedly consider Christ’s birth with heathenishly affiliated
tradition. As I said in previous posts, religion in the west is
not as it is here. Islam enjoins its followers to abide by
unwaveringly faithful principles. Despite Christmas’s disingenuous
origin, Christians chose to eternize it. This is what I call,
Christmas crisis. People tend to dispose its avowedly pagan
inception, as if they knew nothing. I here, may sternly inculpate
my Muslim fellows for blasphemously decorating a Christmas tree.
Why would you do that? If they chose to carelessly desecrate the
divine, why would we in any manner attempt to imitate them? I may
ask pastor Jason to specify a Christian community across his
country which determinedly interdicts celebrating Christmas.
Everywhere in the States, a battle for Christmas had been fought
and won. Someone once told me, we celebrate Christmas with giving
gifts because it is the birth of Christ, the gift from heaven. They
struggle to ritualize secularised practices with involving
irrational and perhaps, absurd conceptions. Christmas is recognised
for mass commerce and abundance of terrestrial welfare.
This is
why it has been intemperately desacralised. For consecutive ages,
no one has ever questioned Christmas’s authenticity and in
particular, from religious perspective. I have been constantly
posing this enquiry to a wide list of pastoral staff across the
States. Well, some of them acknowledged its heterodoxy hitherto,
they didn’t strive in the cause of opposing it.
This is
explicitly paradoxical. If you are convinced you shouldn’t
celebrate Christmas, then why didn’t you opine this opinion
unhesitatingly? These Churches which you wholly belong to aren’t based
on faith rhetoric.
These
Churches are established to insure your corporeal growth. I don’t
oppose everything about Christmas though. I hold great respect for
Christmas’s tradition of keeping kinship ties and gathering with
families. I honour what’s
good and despise what’s evil. Why don’t you cleanse these Churches
from
temporal pursuits? You actually couldn’t because many of you are
certified pianists at Church. Many of you are into Organ business
for terrestrial gain. This is the crisis of Christmas and this is
the crisis of churching in western countries. What choirs have to
do with religious ceremonies?
These
are essentially meant for your own melody and temporal satisfaction.
If we
look closely, we will find this phenomenon predominantly dominating
your Churches. If you worship god with music, how do you entertain
yourselves then? Please, don’t misapprehend my purpose. I don’t
destine to incite someone’s offence nor to just bait you. My
proposition is primarily based on my devotion of feting faith. I
suppose my concerns are rationally corroborated. If you are either
united Methodist or Pentecostal, this proposition is destined to
address your congregation. Had either Jesus or any of his disciples
played music for worship, it would have been theologically
justified. The problematic factor is, these practices were later
developed by people who surely, never saw Jesus in real. I again,
don’t destine to deliberately provoke someone’s outrage. What I
want Church people to recognise, if you are really serious about
turning to and worshipping the One true God, this is not the proper
path to do so. Islam is the clearest way to get through. It is the
finest choice to reach up to the celestial realm. In orthodox
Islam, sincerity to Allah is a major tenet for your deed to either
be blessed or disgraced. In Islam, we are strictly prohibited to
call on others than Allah. Even Muhammad, peace and blessings be
upon him, we never call onto his help. Yes, in our creed, we
believe in his intercession on judgement day with the Grace of
Allah but, he has no authority to forgive our sins, neither to
benefit or harm us. No one is to either forgive or punish except
Allah, Who created us and He sustains and maintains our existence
on earth. Why do you worship Jesus? Isn’t he someone whom Allah
created? I call you to worship Allah glory be to Him. My intent
with this invitation is based on seeking providential Grace. I call
you to the blessedness of the hereafter. If you are earnest about
finding truth, you at the very least will consider this invitation
at some point. I seek no wordly attainment with this proposal. My
hope is to earn Allah’s reward on judgement day. As devout
monotheists, we ought to utterly forbear Christmas festivities. As
for them, they are inordinately indulged with temporal ascendancy.
Despite their proclamation of preserving the gospel’s sentiment,
they plainly belie what they preach. Where is music in Jesus’s
ministry?
Their relationship with religion is primarily based on
worldly-minded interest. I do not make this up, you just need to
reflect on what Christmas is for many of them. We won’t ever
tolerate portraying faith in satirical renditions as many of them
do. This is why, Christmas became a majorly corrupt festival. When
we talk about religion in the west and particularly in the States,
we have got to keep in mind its staidly prepossessing notion.
They virtually know nothing about anything outside American borders.
Their
Churches consequently are labelled with americanised characteristics.
For this reason, I sought reaching pastoral staff across the States
to leniently remind them about their trenchant role to rectify the
situation. I don’t prejudiciously oppose everything about
Christmas. I in fact like about it the social tradition of
gathering with families. This is a gracious practice and it’s a
mutual value between Islam and the Christian tradition.
During
most of the year, people are so busy to see their family members
and particularly, if some of them are settled out of town or in
another state.
So, you could be living in Florida and your relatives are living
in West Virginia or South Carolina, for instance. Christmas is a
good reason to drive or fly to see family, relatives and loved
ones. I endorse this particular value. In Ramadan, people here
observe the same value of keeping kinship ties. They typically
gather for breakfast, day in, day out. My main message in this
essay is not to purposelessly criticise Christmas. I rather want to
clarify some important concepts. First of which, is our cultural
independence. I yes endorse some aspects of Christmas but, that
doesn’t mean I have got to imitate it. Second, Islam encourages me
to agnise diversity without having to be manipulated. Third,
despite detriment, I must clear up these numerous misconceptions
that are incessantly besieging either my regional based or
identity. I am Muslim and I do see everything from Islamic
standpoint. That is quite natural because I adhere what I believe.
Some of
you may have heard about the terrible incident of targeting the
principal Catholic Cathedral here last December. Also, you may
have heard of these callous assaults against two Churches at the
beginning of the past summer.
That was acrimonious, vicious, timid, bestial and terrorist act.
There is nothing in what I wholeheartedly believe that gives credit
to such mischievous deeds. Christians here are our fellows in
patriotism. I proudly live nearby a prominent Church in my area. It
is called the Square Church because it is located in a main square
or the Red Church because it has red walls. I ordinarily hear its
bell as I pass by its complex on my way to work on Sunday morning.
The one who evoked this vicious assault on the Cathedral intended
to provoke sectarian strife domestically. Well, this for sure won’t
ever happen here. Muslims and Christians in this country tend to
stick to deeply fraternal fundamentals. Despite our religious
dissension, we sanely discern our mutual accountability of guarding
this nation’s unity. In the face of adversity during Liberation
Square days, we firmly stood next to each other. Sometimes, you may
not easily recognise whether a person is Christian or Muslim
because here, they may look too similar, unless you
interrogatively ask about someone’s family name. However, there are
some Coptics who’re exhaustingly abominable. As right-wing
evangelists in various circumstances, they like to act the victim
role. They pretend religious persecution and then, they flee to the
nearest foreign embassy to acquire visa for refugees. I know many
people who have done that. They particularly went to the States
with telling counterfeit stories about persecution, some of them
even claimed being ex Muslims and so on. This is unsurprisingly
typical, and in particular for someone serves at the missionary field.
Those
people are thoroughly trained to empower illusions and repellent
dissimulations. They will align with even pagans to detestably
asperse Muslims. I know Arab and even Egyptian Christians who
cowardly fled to the States to viciously denounce where they came
from and to methodically deceive their disinformed recipients. I
apologise but, I couldn’t talk about Christians in the States
without rendering these vital facts so clearly.
Perhaps you don’t know something about this and therefore, I urge
you to verify my claims. You shouldn’t accept them without
evidence. I want you to critically track this phenomenon and
determine its actual cause. I personally assume it is the
longstanding hostility of Orientalism toward anything has the name
Muslim. It furthermore is the solidly established coalition between
Christendom and Secularism. They mutually despise the concepts of
obligation and prohibition. Traditionally, Christianity doesn’t
demand its followers to adhere certain rulings or social conduct.
Thence,
they have a major trouble with Islamic jurisprudence. They don’t
really follow something which tells them, do this and don’t do
that. If someone wants to pray, he is welcome but if someone
doesn’t want to, it is tolerable. If someone doesn’t drink, he is
considered pious but if someone likes to drink, he isn’t punished.
If someone favours to get married, he is considered reputable but
if someone chooses to engage in illicit wedlock, he isn’t punished.
Do you see the plain difference between the two traditions?
Islam is troubling for them because it regulates daily pursuits,
business transactions and so on. Certainly, this is not what they
want. They like to practice religion according to what they desire.
It is sort of state based temperament. Today, I am appealed to
drink, so I’ll just do that.
Tomorrow, I am not interested to drink, so I’ll refrain. This is
how it works. Lastly, to Christians who receive this, I testify to
the divine that I do not seek angering someone with what I said.
When I say Christmas crisis, I mean Christmas holiday not Christmas
story. As I said at the beginning of this, Nativity chronicle is
graciously reported in the Koran.
Jesus, peace be upon him was born of a virtuous virgin. She is
Mary peace be upon her. Some of you may know that a whole chapter
in the Koran is named after her. Christians say she was married to
Joseph but that is actually incorrect. She was a celibate woman, no
mortal touched her. Allah made the birth of Jesus miraculous to
demonstrate His distinctly providential Omnipotence. This miracle
occurred to test who is going to persist and who is going to fall
in tribulation. Unfortunately, Christology devotees fallen in
disgrace. They consciously opted to mendaciously exalt a human
being that Allah willed to made his birth miraculous. Instead of
worshipping Who made the miracle, they worship the miracle. This is
why, we consider Christians heathens. Islam enjoins its followers
to worship the One Who created everyone and everything. Allah’s
unparalleled Omnipotence qualifies Him to create a man in a
female’s womb without any masculine intervension.
Even if
we believe the crucifixion account for the sake of arguing, Jesus
didn’t rise himself from death. Allah rose him. Thus far, there is
no valid reason to justify deifying Jesus. This is why, Christians
tend to prettify their religious thoughts emotionally. They focus
so much on attracting your emotional factors. They have no other
method to present their religion to people. They chose to
intemperately be misguided. As Muslims, we are honoured of
preserving the genuine Christmas tale. In your version of the
story, it isn't clear, is Jesus the creator or part of the
creation? I asked this question to many pastoral associates and
they seemingly failed to tackle its kernel competently. To
gospellers out there, I keenly urge you to carry on the subsequent
task. Please, assemble the four accounts of Crucifixion narrative
in a paralleled fashion and examine, are they necessarily identical
in their description? I urged many of you to cite one quote in the
whole scripture, where Jesus explicitly states, I am God, worship
me. All your opted remarks of alleged claims of deification are
implicitly construed. The claim of Jesus stating he is divine in
the Bible is just a total fraud. It is exactly like, Donald Trump
said he respects his rivals. Both are fibs. As for Trump, I don't see
where is the point of him being evangelists primal mentor.
I recall when he fallaciously exhibited his Bible to unethically
entice his deeply disinformed audience. As for Christmas
chisellers, what about Santa Claus? Santa is the legendary patron
saint of children. He is an imaginary being who is thought to
bring presents to children at Christmas. Excuse me folks, why won't
you frankly unveil his actual name and character? Would you please
tell us a bit about Saint Nicholas? He was a bishop in Asia Minor who
is
enigmatically associated with Santa Claus. He lived in the fourth
century. He is conspicuously notorious of savagely subjugating
monotheists to relentless bedevilment, persecution, theological
inhibition and inclement carnages. So, in other words, you have
viciously made an innocent figure out of some criminal. What a
disgraceful act. You have lied to all children of the world with this.
Christmas crisis goes beyond the terrible deceit of Santa Claus. I
urge you to gradually expose the remainder. I look forward to
hearing from you. I'll professionally interact to your returned
threads in the manner I deem appropriate. Thank you for patiently
reading, Bob Evans _______________________________
