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Vol. 81/No. 8 February 27, 2017
(Books of the Month column)
Castro: ‘Ours is a more just society and we believe in it’
Below is an excerpt from a television interview with Cuban President
Fidel Castro, conducted in Havana by Robert MacNeil and televised on the
MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour in February 1985. The four-part interview, which
was broadcast twice in the U.S., generated considerable debate and
discussion. Castro’s defense of the Cuban Revolution made a positive
impression on many people, and the effect of the interview helped
undermine Washington’s anti-Cuba propaganda campaign. War and Crisis in
the Americas, one of Pathfinder’s Books of the Month for February,
contains this interview and others, along with speeches by Castro
between December 1983 and March 1985. Copyright © 1985 by Pathfinder
Press. Reprinted by permission.
MACNEIL: White House spokesman Larry Speakes said that one of the
obstacles the Reagan administration sees to improved relations with
Castro is what Speakes called violations of human rights in Cuba. I
asked Castro about that.
CASTRO: What are the violations of human rights in Cuba? Tell me. Which
ones? Invent one. Do we have disappeared people here? Look, if the
United States —
MACNEIL: Well, let me give you an example of what he said. For instance,
human rights organizations, like Amnesty International, estimate that
you have up to 1,000 political prisoners still in your jails here. Do
you have political prisoners still in jail in Cuba?
CASTRO: Yes, we have them. We have a few hundred political prisoners. Is
that a violation of human rights?
MACNEIL: In democracies it is considered a violation of human rights to
imprison somebody for his political beliefs.
CASTRO: I will give you an example. In Spain there are many Basque
nationalists in prison. They’re not political prisoners? What are they?
Because you also have to analyze what is a political prisoner and what
is not a political prisoner. Now then, those who committed crimes during
Batista’s time, did we have the right to put them on trial or not? Okay.
Those who invaded Cuba through Playa Girón. Did we have the right to try
them or not? Those who became CIA agents, those who placed bombs, those
who brought about the deaths of peasants, workers, teachers. Do we have
the right to bring them to trial or not? Those who, in agreement with a
foreign power like the United States and backed by the United States and
inspired by the United States, conspired in our country and who struggle
and fight against our people in this revolution — because this
revolution is not of a minority; this is a revolution of the
overwhelming majority of people. What are these people? What are they?
Political prisoners? Those who have infiltrated through our coasts,
those who have been trained by the CIA to kill, to place bombs: Do we
have the right to bring them to trial or not? Are they political
prisoners? They’re something more than political prisoners. They’re
traitors to the homeland.
MACNEIL: Is there anybody in jail simply because of his political
beliefs — because he dissents from you politically?
CASTRO: No one is in prison because of either their political or
religious beliefs. …
MACNEIL: May I raise a point? Your system, which you say works very
well, it does presuppose that the leadership of the country, you, are
always right, that you are infallible. Is that not so?
CASTRO: No, it does not presuppose that, because we are not as dogmatic
as the church, although we have been dogmatic, and we have never
preached a personality cult. You will not see a statue of me anywhere,
nor a school with my name, nor a street, nor a little town, nor any type
of personality cult because we have not taught our people to believe,
but to think, to reason out. We have a people who think, not a people
who believe, but rather who reason out, who think. And they might either
agree or disagree with me. In general the overwhelming majority have
agreed. Why? Because we have always been honest; we have always told
them the truth. The people know that the government has never told them
a lie. And I ask you to go to the world, tour the world, and go to the
United States and ask if they can say what I can say, that I have never
told a lie to the people. And these are the reasons why there is
confidence. Not because I have become a statue or an idol but rather
simply because of the fact that they trust me. And I have very, very few
prerogatives in this country. I do not appoint ministers or
vice-ministers or directors of ministries or ambassadors. I don’t
appoint anybody, and that’s the way it is. We have a system, a system
for the selection of cadre based on their capacity, etc. I have less
power, 100 times less power than the president of the United States, who
can even declare war and nuclear war.
MACNEIL: But doesn’t the system mean that the revolution is always right?
CASTRO: You, when you had your independence war you did not even free
the slaves and yet you said you were a democratic country. For 150
years, you did not even allow the Black man to be part of a baseball
team or a basketball team, to enter a club, to go to a white children’s
school. And you said it was a democracy. None of those things exists
here — neither racial discrimination nor discrimination due to sex. It
is the most fair, egalitarian society there has ever been in this
hemisphere. So we consider it to be superior to yours. But you believe
that yours is the best without any discussion whatsoever. Although there
might be multimillionaires and people barefoot begging in the streets,
without any homes, people unemployed. And you believe it’s perfect,
because you believe things.
I don’t think that type of society is perfect, really, I think that ours
is better. We have defended it better. It is a more just society and we
believe in it. Now, we make mistakes, but whenever we make a mistake we
have the courage to explain it. We have the courage to admit it, to
recognize it, acknowledge it, to criticize it. I believe that very few —
that there are probably few people like the leaders of a revolution who
are able to acknowledge their mistakes. And I first of all acknowledge
it before myself because first of all I am more critical with myself
than with anybody else. But I’m critical before my people, critical
before the world, the U.S., everybody. Far from — but don’t worry. If
this analysis had not been correct, the revolution would not be in
power. The revolution would not be in power.
Related articles:
Havana book fair pays tribute to Fidel Castro’s leadership, example
Interest builds in joining May Day brigade to Cuba
Cuba’s internationalism was born with revolution
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