Abdullah,
Fox News is not a very good channel for news. It is the channel where the
most right wing and prejudiced views are expressed. So I wouldn't depend on
it for anything like balanced information. However, all of this open
prejudice against Muslims began after the 9/11 attacks. It was much less
apparent before then although it certainly may have existed.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of abdulah aga
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2015 7:33 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Can we prove we are sane?
Hi
Miriam I don't thinks so that course's should poot in school!
number 2 don't forget that USA is not secular state as they are talking to
people and as they are want to people thinks,
USA is Christian state.
In all school you can freely talk about Christianity, bible but if you say
any word about Islam,
in that case you are small terrorist or you are not welcoming in school or
they are make big deal from that:
many school having notes to child when and where you can go to study bible
read an spend some time in church, but if any of child even try to make joke
about Quran or that they are going to learn about Islam this would bee
scandal.
Few days ago I see on fox news how some where in USA
one child who is 7. grates in school
I am not sure I didn't follow that news good but how I could understand he
sed
that is Good only good Allah and that Mohamed is his Mesager
and how you could bee Muslim,
so I thinks he make asay or something like that,
so what is bad there for big news?
what he did so bad?
he jus say word what all world know Eder Muslim or non Muslim.
So what I should to do when my child com from school and say that some child
tock to her how he or she went to church?
should I make panic?
so I jus listen and say that is ok that it!
so I know if I say anything to child about religion,
I would bee terrorist anomy of State and so on so on, I know some of you
would not to greed but for sure this is true.
-----Original Message-----
From: Miriam Vieni
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2015 9:01 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Can we prove we are sane?
Yes, I was describing what was done in the past and what a lot of peopll
would like to return to. But I also think that it is unrealistic to expect
children to benefit from a few minuts of quiet reflection. Being able to do
that takes a certain amount of maturity of which children are incapable. IN
fact, most adults can't do it either. I certainly think that courses in
comparative religion could be offered in high school as well as college, so
long as they are elective. The fact is that the cultural aspectds of western
religions are already part of courses in literature and music because
Christianity is so enmeshed in western civilization. What people don't
learn, is about all of the other religions, nor do they learn about all of
the varieties of Judaism. I suppose that's true of Christianity too. They
learn about Catholocism and the Protestant Reformation, but then the fact
that the Protestants split into all these sects, isn't apparent. And they
certainly didn't know about the different sects in the Muslim religion until
the US stirred the pot which caused the civil wars in the Mid East.
Miriam
________________________________
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Alice Dampman
Humel
Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2015 11:50 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Can we prove we are sane?
Miriam,
what you describe is not a minute of silent reflection, it is inflicted
Christian prayer and that sucks. That's not what I am talking about at all.
But you are correct, and the Kim Davises and icke Huckabees and all the rest
of them want to make it into exactly what you describe. It is hideous and
scarring.
How many children have been brainwashed with this ultra right wing Christian
dogma to their detriment? The schools should be an antidote to this.and this
is precisely why the ultra Ortodox of every religion want to homeschool
their children, to keep them from that particular form of brainwashing. The
fact that they simple exchange one form of brain washing for another is lost
on them.
On Sep 9, 2015, at 10:14 PM, Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
My father told me that this is a Christian country in response to a
complaint I was making about prayers in school. I attended a public school.
In class each morning, we had to fold our hands and say a silent prayer. In
assembly each week, a bible psalm was read and we sang Christian hymns. I
bitterly resented the bible reading and Christian hymns. But I also resented
the silent prayer each day. We didn't pray in my home and prayer meant, as
far as I knew and from what I'd been told, either asking God for something
or thanking Him for something. I hadn't made any decision about God yet. But
the silent prayer felt like an intrusion. And I knew that I was Jewish and
that I shouldn't have to sing Christian hymns if I didn't want to.
And I'd
already been exposed to forced religious observance at Camp Wapanaki, which
should have been a secular camp for blind children, but certainly wasn't.
Well, Dr. Framton, who owned the New York Institute for the Blind and Camp
Wapanaki was, if I remember correctly, a minister. So on Sundays, everyone
who wanted to go to church was driven into town to do so. But if you didn't
attend church, attendance at the camp's Christian service was mandatory.
Well, it was until 1951, I believe. And it was much worse than my school
assembly. So given that history, I would prefer to leave all of that study
of various religious texts and moments for silent reflection, out of the
public school day. I would prefer that parents who want their children to
learn, at a tender age, about the world religions and to have the experience
of silent reflection or spiritual growth or whatever, arrange for them to
have such experiences away from public school.
Miriam
________________________________
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Alice Dampman
Humel
Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2015 8:04 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Can we prove we are sane?
Miriam,
Culturally, you are correct, the US, just like most of the western
hemisphere, is Christian, much as the Middle East is Muslim, India is Hindu,
Japan is Shinto, and so on, although many of those examples do indeed allow
religious law to enter into and even govern civil law. Every region has a
dominant religion, again, if not theologically, then at least culturally. I
disagree about the silent minute at the start of a school day. It is
supposed to be exactly that, a minute of nothing, of silence, as I said, for
each person to fill with whatever thoughts he wishes, not necessarily
prayers. If that is monkeyed with, there will be plenty of people ready to
fight back, and that is good.
I know exactly what yur father meant. But this is what we must fight
against, as if there aren't a million other things to fight against.
This is
a wholesale hijacking of the very laudable concept of religious freedom, a
concept that should, yeah, right, should obviate religious persecution or
prejudice in this country. If you live in Williamsburg, the one in Brooklyn,
not Virginia, then there is not too much feeling or evidence of that
Christian nation the evangelicals want to make you think is national in
scope. If you live in east Armpit, Indiana, then yes, indeed, the Christian
climate will predominate.
In Idaho and Utah, if you're not a Mormon, you are a second class citizen, a
dismissed minority.
And your father was probably right on the other matter too.although I'd say
it sort of relative to many things.
Alice
On Sep 9, 2015, at 3:29 PM, Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
My father, who dropped out of school after eighth grade and who, by the way,
snuck into this country illegally at age 14, told me two things while I was
growing up that I'll always remember. 1. Be wary of anyone whose opinions or
actions are extreme. 2. Whatever people say, this is really a Christian
nation. I suspect he was correct in both statements. IF they bring back
those, "silent", periods to school, mark my words, they will quickly be
filled with Christian prayers. There won't be verses from the Koran,or any
alterntnative religious utterances, aside from, perhaps something from the
old testament to give lip service to Judaism. Just like whatever we call the
celebrations around December 25th, Winter Solstace or holiday parties, we
all know that they're Christmas parties and we get Christmas off, not the
day of the winter solstace. And, to remind you of our long and heated debate
of several years ago, it is a Christmas tree on the White House lawn,
whatever the historical and cultural origins of a Christmas tree may be. And
one of the reasons for the power of the Israel Lobby, is the very strong
support that it gets from Evangelical Christians. Jews had very little power
in this country in the 30's and 40's when european Jews were being
slaughtered and Jewish organizations were begging the US to open its borders
to German Jews. Israel's power increased because of cold war politics. We
have this dream about what America is supposed to be and we become confused
because people like President Obama, tell us that. we are who we are
supposed to be.
Miriam
________________________________
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Alice Dampman
Humel
Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2015 2:23 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: my blog carl jarvis
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Can we prove we are sane?
Well, that is the one point we may diverge on, Carl.I maintain that not all
religious, devout, pious, call them what you will, people are stupid and,
conversely, not all atheists, agnostics, are brilliant. There's some of each
in each.
I maintain, believe what you want. Go about observing your observances as
you choose.and if you choose a religion, then more than likely, that choice
includes observing the way they observe, and if you don't, that's between
you and your conscience, and you will decide how quiet you keep it.
I know
plenty of Jews who keep kosher homes, but use summer vacations or trips to
restaurants to indulge in that bacon cheeseburger or the twin lobster
special. I know plenty of observant Catholics who use birth control, live
with their lovers, and so on.
I even find it interesting to discuss, to understand, to be informed about
the religions of others, what they believe, what they do, why they do it,
traditions, etc. But when it crosses the line into one religion or
representative of a religion trying to make me do what his religion
dictates, then I say no.
This crap about the United States being a Christian country is utter crap.
We are supposed to be a nation of religious tolerance, anyone can practice
his or her religion freely with no strictures imposed upon him by the
government, unless it involves criminal acts like murder, child abuse,
theft, whatever, although it seems that some religions manage to get away
with criminal acts anyway, and no one will bother you. However, the flip
side of that pertains as well, the religious can not impose his will on the
rest of society which does not share his religious beliefs and practices.
That's where it all breaks down for me.
Not a Christian nation, but a nation that allows the free exercise of
religious observance by its citizens with no government interference.
Removing the recitation of the Lord's prayer from public schools?
Yes.
Removing the moment of silence for each kid to reflect, pray, daydream, plan
an insurrection or a lunchroom prank? Maybe not.having a little quiet time
is not such a bad idea, united in quiet.
Taking the reading of the Bible out of the schools? Perhaps rather add
alternate readings from other holy books as an exercise in cultural
diversification is maybe a better idea. One day, the Bible, one day the
Baghavad Gita, one day the Koran, one day Buddha, etc. The world's cultures
are full of references to these things, literary, artistic, theatrical,
musical, and if we all grow up ignorant of the reference points, we lose
much of the aesthetic richness of both our own cultural heritage, flawed
though it may be, and also that of others.
I read something recently, it went something like this: If a person who
sells a same-sex couple a wedding cake can claim he is then part of the
marriage, how come the person who sells a killer a gun can't be said to be
part of the murder?
alice
On Sep 9, 2015, at 1:34 PM, Carl Jarvis <carjar82@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Absolutely right, Alice. And you said it with far more control than I. But
you see, the entire premise is built upon one lie after another. I'll pass
over my contention that Man...Men, not Women invented God. Let's say He
really is here...or out there...or up there. So now Mankind divides into
groups, each waving a Holy Book handed down to them by God...or whatever
name they call Him.
But anyway, the Europeans came bumping their ships against the big piles of
land that stood between them and the Spice Center of the world. And there
were strange Beings wandering about this huge Land.
And suddenly the Europeans God, both Catholic and the many Protestant
denominations, called out to them saying, "It is good! This is your
Promised Land. Build my temples and worship me forever".
And so it came to pass that the Europeans claimed the Land in the name
of...no, not in the name of God, but in the name of the Kings of the several
nations involved in this Land Grab. Oh sure, they had banners with crosses
on them. They built churches and temples and went forth each Sunday Morning
to Worship God and thank Him for sharing of His bountiful wealth. But
little of what God shared went back to God.
It
mostly went back to the Kings living far across the ocean. So moving right
along, after butchering and raping and enslaving all the folks who had
believed they were entitled to live here, the Europeans grabbed and fought
among themselves. Finally a bunch of rascals, the equivalent to today's
Terrorists, kicked the King of England out of the Land and took over.
And even at that, later on this new nation split and fought among its own
States over the right of men to own other men and women and little children.
And when that war was over the Industrialist went back to enslaving the
common people by forcing them to work six and seven days a week, twelve to
fourteen hours per day, for barely enough to pay for the rent and food sold
to them by their Bosses.
And here's the real joke. People today would have us believe that this
nation, these United States of America, is a Christian nation.
And we call ourselves intelligent?
Carl Jarvis
On 9/9/15, Alice Dampman Humel <alicedh@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
and this is precisely what they have no right to do.they are free to not
have abortions, to not use burt control, to not have homosexual
relationships, to not shop on whatever holy day their religion binds them
to, to close their own business on that day if they own a business,
whatever. But they have no right to impose any of that on the rest of us if
the law says differently, the secularly defined law, not a religious one.
and this is what I don't quite understand why there's not more objection,
louder opposition to, this imposition of somebody else's religious laws on
others. Kim Davis doesn't believe in gay marriage? Fine.
Then she should
not enter into one. But part of her job is to issue marriage licenses, and
if the law permits gays to marry, or a man to marry a sheep, or a woman to
marry a tree, then it is up to her to issue the license whether she likes
the choice of spouse or not.again, to trot out everyone's favorite
yardstick: what if she, in 2015, even in Kentucky, refused to issue a
marriage license to an interracial couple? It's not for her to impose her
religious views on others, and if she can't overcome herself to uphold civil
law, then she should find another job.
Alice
On Sep 9, 2015, at 10:58 AM, Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
But they've been imposing their will on us, they and the Catholic Bishops.
No federal funds for abortion. And that Supreme Court decision last year,
didn't that have to do with on the job medical insurance benefits for birth
control? And all those state regulations that have eliminated abortion
clinics and added on requirements for women before they can get their
abortions?
Miriam
________________________________
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Alice Dampman
Humel
Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2015 9:25 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Fwd: [act-chat] Oops!
National Federation
of
the Blind Sued for Religious Discrimination by EEOC
Abdulah and all,
I get so furious every time I hear yet another story about this sniveling
sack of shit Kim Davis and all her brainwashed evangelical cohorts and
supporters, including the odious Mike Huckabee.
They keep yapping about how their religious freedom is being taken away.
And
no one contradicts them, no one seems to have the balls to say to them, "You
have no idea what the concept of religious freedom even means. You have no
idea whatsoever what it means to have no religious freedom. You are free to
unobstructed and unchallenged practice any religion you choose, complete
with whatever demands it makes of you, to comply with all the dicta attached
to that religion, from the standard denominations of the world's religions,
even the wacko sects of those religions, right down to pastafarianism.
What
you are not permitted to do is impose those beliefs and their restrictions
on others. We do not live in a theocracy. We are under no obligation to
observe any religion's laws if we ourselves do not subscribe to that
religion. And you can't make us, no matter how hard you try to shoehorn the
concept of religious freedom into this form of tyranny, right up there with
fascism of the worst order. The lack of religious freedom means that you
will be thrown in jail for mouthing off about your wacko beliefs and/or
practicing them. When that happens, then we'll talk about how Christians are
being persecuted and you right wing evangelicals are being deprived of your
religious freedom. Bullshit. So until then, shut up and go away."
Something like that.think I"m ready for prime time yet? :) Alice
On Sep 9, 2015, at 3:22 AM, abdulah aga
<abdulahhasic@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi
Hmmmm So it means that USA as capitalism People like more religion then
money?,
So Saudi Arabia we know is religion country,
but they are work even Fridays,
in Saudi Arabia is Fridays weekend,
So I don't know then what start going on in USA with
people:
Maybe they are want to make all USA as Vatican? or what?.
Abdulah Hasic.
-----Original Message----- From: Frank Ventura
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2015 11:57 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Fwd: [act-chat] Oops!
National
Federation of the Blind Sued for Religious Discrimination by EEOC
I wonder what would happen if people refused to work on religious days for
Walmart, somehow I dount the EEOC would have the guts to go after
Wallyworld.
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of abdulah aga
Sent: Tuesday, September 8, 2015 4:30 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Fwd: [act-chat] Oops!
National
Federation of the Blind Sued for Religious Discrimination by EEOC
Hi
I don't know where this lead us?
When people start use religion to much as esquse for something then is not
good:
other word that esquse lead us in Couse or some type of mess,
I know how looks like and I past true all this things
So I would like ask smart NFB why they are didn't do sem thinks in my case
with TX comition for the blind?
I would like ask smart NFB what would bee hempen if Muslim people say we
don't work Fridays, because of are religion?
-----Original Message-----
From: Miriam Vieni
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2015 3:11 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Fwd: [acb-chat] Oops!
National
Federation of the Blind Sued for Religious Discrimination by EEOC
I guess the NFB is a bit narrow in their definition of discrimination? They
recognize it only when it happens to blind people?
Miriam
________________________________
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Charles Krugman
(Redacted sender "ckrugman@xxxxxxxxxxxxx"
for DMARC)
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2015 3:38 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Fwd: [acb-chat] Oops!
National
Federation of the Blind Sued for Religious Discrimination by EEOC
and the stupidity award goes to the National Federation of the Blind! I
wonder whether the NFB membership will be apprized of this.
Chuck
From: R. E. Driscoll Sr <mailto:llocsirdsr@xxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, September 8, 2015 9:39 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Fwd: [acb-chat] Oops!
National Federation
of the Blind Sued for Religious Discrimination by EEOC
All:
This came in the morning mail. It had rather long "TO and COPY"
sections which I have deleted... Further details may be found in the link.
R. E. (Dick) Driscoll, Sr.
National Federation of the Blind Sued for Religious Discrimination by EEOC
Advocacy Group Terminated an Employee because He Would Not Work on the
Sabbath, Federal Agency Charged
BALTIMORE - The National Federation of the Blind, the largest organization
of blind and low-vision people in the United States, violated federal law
when it refused to allow an employee to observe his Sabbath and instead
terminated him because of his religion, the U.S. Equal Employment
Opportunity Commission (EEOC) charged in a lawsuit it announced today.
According to the lawsuit, Joseph R. Massey II is a practicing Hebrew
Pentecostal, a Christian denomination, and abstains from working from sunset
Friday to sunset Saturday based on his sincerely-held religious beliefs.
The National Federation of the Blind hired Massey for a bookkeeping position
at its Baltimore office in November 2013.
In January 2014, the
Federation told Massey he had to work certain Saturdays. Massey explained
he could not work Saturdays due to his religious faith and suggested
alternatives such as working on Sundays or working late on week nights other
than Fridays. EEOC charged that the Federation refused to provide any
reasonable accommodation and instead fired Massey because he could not work
Saturdays due to his religious beliefs.
Such alleged conduct violates Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964,
which prohibits employers from discriminating against individuals because of
their religion and requires employers to reasonably accommodate an
employee's sincerely-held religious beliefs unless doing so would impose an
undue hardship on the employer. EEOC filed suit (EEOC v. The National
Federation of the Blind, Civil Action No.
1:15-cv-02484-GLR) in U.S.
District Court for the District of Maryland, Baltimore Division, after first
attempting to reach a pre-litigation settlement through its conciliation
process.
"Employees should not have to choose between their jobs and their religious
convictions when a religious accommodation will not unduly burden others,"
said EEOC Philadelphia District Director Spencer H.
Lewis, Jr.
EEOC Regional Attorney Debra M. Lawrence added, "Most religious
accommodations are not unduly costly, such as allowing an employee to switch
his schedule to observe his Sabbath. No employee should be forced to choose
between earning a living and following the dictates of his faith."
EEOC's Philadelphia District Office has jurisdiction over Pennsylvania,
Maryland, Delaware, West Virginia and parts of New Jersey and Ohio. Its
legal staff also prosecutes discrimination cases arising from Washington,
D.C. and parts of Virginia.
EEOC enforces federal laws prohibiting employment discrimination.
Further information about the agency is available at its website,
www.eeoc.gov
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.eeoc.gov&d=BQMCaQ&c
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7b411a6fc>
________________________________
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