Where you and I disagree, Frank, is saying that a vote for the Green
Party is a vote for Trump, or whoever the Republicans run up the flag
pole. But what about saying that a vote for the Green Party is a vote
for more control by the working class? What if such a vote is in
favor of providing all children with a free education, as far as they
can bring themselves. And what if we are voting *FOR a reduction in
military bases around the planet, or a $15.00 minimum wage to be
phased in within two years, or an end to fossil fuel subsidies? All
these and more issues that neither of the candidates representing the
Democrats or Republicans are really supporting? In fact, a vote for
Hillary is the same as voting against Peace. A vote for Trump is a
vote for placing the dismantling of democracy on the fast track. A
vote for either of these two is a vote against the America we once
believed was our, America the Beautiful, and a vote for the Values of
the American Corporate Empire.
Yes, a vote for Jill Stein very well could be a vote for the hope of a
better world for the working class.
Carl Jarvis
On 6/27/16, Frank Ventura <frank.ventura@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Bob, you're not getting it. Take for example what Carl correctly said about
the Green party not having any chance to win. With that being established as
a constant what is the effect of voting for that no chance party? The answer
is a benefit to the GOP, as any vote against their rival (DNC) is worth the
same for them as a direct GOP vote would, it is a number in the plus column
for the GOP. Actually, I'll take that a step further and go as far as to say
that the GOP actually *wants* us to vote for the Green party. Why you ask?
Simply if we vote directly for the GOP they would be forced to acknowledge
us. However voting for the Green party gives them that plus in the win
column and allows them to be dismissive of us as merely a bunch of fringe
radicals. As far as conscience goes, if someone already is aware of that
first constant we spoke about above and still performs an action (voting
Green) that, by design, strictly benefits the GOP; then what does that tell
you about their conscience? You may not like it, may not acknowledge it, or
even be aware of it; but elections have consequences. Now if my memory
serves me correctly, I believe it was you who, a few months back, said in
reference to voting third party that if "a republican gets elected then so
be it". Well take a look at the two supreme court cases decided today
(reproductive rights and gun control) and think about how the court will
change with Mr. GOP in office as opposed to someone else. I fully understand
that voting Green may feel really good on election day but try explaining
that to the women of Texas on January 18, 2017. As I said there is no plan B
morning after pill for elections and there won't be for Texas women either
if Mr. GOP is allowed to win.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Bob Hachey
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2016 11:42 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: CBS this morning
Hi Frank,
I want to be sure I am understanding you correctly. ARE you saying that
folks on this list such as Carl, Miriam and myself have GOP leanings? ARE
you saying that just because we express concerns over voting for Clinton
that we secretly favor the GOP or Trump? Also, are you saying that voting
one's conscience in 2016 is a selfish act? Heck, I always thought that the
point of a democracy is for every citizen to vote his or her conscience. By
the way, Miriam and others have posted here oodles of articles critical of
Trump and many other Republicans.
I challenge you to make the case for how Miriam or any others of us on this
list who have reservations about Clinton are or may be closet Republicans.
While I agree with you that I don't want to see Trump become president, I
believe even more strongly that we have a very badly broken system and that
both parties are to blame. Perhaps the Republicans deserve more of the
blame, but the Democrats are not completely innocent. For more on the guilt
of democrats and liberals please do read "listen Liberal" by Thomas frank.
By the way, I seriously doubt that Thomas Frank is a closet Republican.
Bob Hachey
