Carl,
Did you mean to send this to me off list? I suspect not. So I'm answering on
list. I think you're talking about two different things here. One of the things
you're talking about is the social values that a society consciously teaches
through its schools and its media and its religious institutions.
Theoretically, we can organize to change the messages that are being sent. We
can demand less violence in our films and TV shows, for example. But then there
is what is inside each of us, what we inherit biologically and the personal
experiences we have from birth. That's actually the kind of human nature I was
thinking about. A Donald Trump, N Adolf Hitller, people like them won't change.
I suspect from everything you write that you are a gentle, outgoing person who
loves to interact with other people. I doubt that you would ever change to a
negative, mean spirited person.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Jarvis [mailto:carjar82@xxxxxxxxx] ;
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2017 7:19 PM
To: Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [blind-democracy] Re: Another Woman Says Franken Tried to Forcibly
Kiss Her
Almost right. But rather than Changing Human Nature, how about just modifying
it? Adjusting it a bit. Unless Humans really were created differently than
other animal life, and I see little evidence to collaborate such a notion, then
there are some basic behaviors that make us the Human Beings that we are. It
is what makes cats different than dogs, different than horses, etc. But dogs
can be modified to do different tasks. Even cats can have their behavior
modified. But they are still dogs and cats. We Humans are not going to have
that "Born Again" experience that the Bible talks about, but we can have a
"change of heart". With proper modification a pervert can become a caring
person. A greedy CEO might learn to share, and gain the same satisfaction as
he/she gained from previous efforts to grasp everything in sight.
Our behavior has been tampered with for such a long time that we can't imagine
ourselves behaving differently. But we got the way we are through behavior
modification. Putting different people in power, or tossing out the
Republicans and bringing in the Democrats is not going to change anything at
all. But changing what we are teaching our children would be a good beginning
place. Or how about promoting the idea that we can make any corporation using
a bottom line of Profit, an illegal act. Make People's needs the bottom line.
Those who ignore People's needs will serve serious time, and be fined.
Or what about the violent war-like games our children pack around in their game
toys and play on TV? Who said that this was a good thing to do, and why do we
allow it to continue? Why are there so many novels that involve sweet young
damsels being brutalized, raped and tortured?
We have been led a long way down the Broad Road to Hell without ever
questioning it. We need to set new values and begin insisting that we all
practice them, rather than using them for personal gain.
Carl Jarvis
On 12/7/17, Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Carl,
The fact is that people choose leaders. I don't care whether it's in a
Capitalist state or a socialist state or whatever. The leaders are
human beings with all of the potential for altruism and greed, for
narcissism and sociopathy, for bravery and cowardice, that are in all
of us to a greater or lesser degree. Each leader will choose to act
in a way that conforms to his or her personality needs. Somewhere, I
was reading about how just about anyone who runs for the presidency,
has had narcissistic tendencies. That makes sense. What other person
would want that office. And that would be true for anyone who wants to
fill a powerful position. The Democratic Party may be completely
corrupted at this point. But if you want change, you'll need to find a way to
change human nature.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Jarvis [mailto:carjar82@xxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2017 12:37 PM
To: Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [blind-democracy] Re: Another Woman Says Franken Tried to
Forcibly Kiss Her
Miriam,
And these brave Democrats are the folks voters put in office to look
out for them.
I view the behavior of the Democrats who voted against impeachment, to
be sellouts to the American People. It's obvious that they put their
own political future first. But even though they chose what looked
like the safe course, protecting future contributions from big
corporate donors, they do run some risk of being "found out" by their
constituency, and be "out placed" anyway.
But I'm still convinced that in the long run the American Working
Class cannot win with either political party the way they are now
structured and the way they have sold out to Corporate First Class
Citizens. After I check to see if Murray and Cantwell voted for
impeachment, I'll know if I can support them in future elections.
Carl Jarvis
On 12/7/17, Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
And today, I hear that the Democratic leadership voted against the
articles of impeachment brought to the house by a Democratic
congressman. This is a time when it's appropriate to use my favorite
epithet. Why, in God's name, didn't they vote for impeachment?
Because it would be politically inconvenient and embarrassing to do
so. What hypocrits! They go on and on about Trump's campaign colluding with
Russia.
They waste time and taxpayers'
money playing games with this stuff. They have the big tech companies
censoring what we see to prevent Russian influence because of this
mythology they're pushing. But they can't impeach Trump for doing in
spades, what they tried to impeach Clinton for doing, or for
financially benefiting from his presidency, which he is clearly
doing, or for putting the country at risk with his threats and his actions.
There are actually some people saying some of this stuff on podcasts
like on Citations Needed and Intercepted. But that's preaching to the
choir. Which reminds me, Chris Hedges was on Citations Needed
yesterday and sounded, a bit more down-to-earth than he does in his
writing. Example, he said that if the Democratic Leadership hadn't
rigged the primary, Sanders would have won, and and probably, would
have won the election, and he didn't say that it wouldn't have mattered.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Carl ;
Jarvis
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2017 10:27 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: jamesjarvis98 <jamesjarvis98@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Another Woman Says Franken Tried to
Forcibly Kiss Her
You're right. It's all very troubling. Can it be that folks,
especially women, to the Left of Center are really so bent on proving
that they are playing fair that they bend over backward to defend
women accusing Liberal and Progressive members of Congress, while
leaving it up to conservatives to do the same for women accusing
Conservative members of Congress?
Are Democrats really backed into a corner by the Republican Bully
Boys, and afraid to demand that Donald Trump and his Locker room Boys
receive the same treatment as they are demanding of the Democrats?
Of course, after ranting a bit, I remind myself that this pushing
match is between the various factions of the Ruling Class. It does
not really involve the Working Class. If it was of a National
concern, then when my wife, prior to my knowing her, went to the
director of the agency and complained about one of the male staff
supervisors foundling her breast, the director would have taken the
appropriate action. But despite his assurances that he would "Talk
to Don", nothing positive came of it. Over and over I have witnessed
women being forced to behave like whores in order to hold onto a
crumby low paying job. Bosses demanded certain shapes and certain
dress codes and certain manners from "the girls". But where were
these deeply concerned congress members? Probably the congressmen
were too busy ogling their own staff Barbie Dolls.
Frankly, I get sick and tired of the posturing and mouthing of public
officials, when it serves their personal needs. These people do not
represent the American People. They are owned by Corporate Masters,
and they parrot the words that are whispered in their puppet ears.
If the American Working Class ever cuts through the fog and the
verbal crap being dumped daily on our working class heads, perhaps a
future Sun will rise on a better world. But in the meantime I will
not bother to join in on either side of this farce of a witch hunt
between the warring Corporations that make up our nation's ruling
class. One thing for certain, when they get it all worked out, the
Corporate Bosses will push a buzzer and their personal Barbie Doll
secretary will flounce into the office to take down the bosses words.
Carl Jarvis
On 12/7/17, Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
2 things bother me. Most important, why is the accuser remaining
anonymous?
Certainly, her career can't be hurt by coming forward . Other women
who've made accusations against powerful men, have been willing to
give their names. The second thing that bothers me is that women in
the Democratic Party are so quick to assume that the people accusing
Franken are not doing so for partisan reasons. The first accusation
seemed, to me, to be clearly a partisan attack. Why aren't the
Democratic female office holders insisting that Trump step down,
given his sexual assault history? Why isn't that a basis for
impeachment rather than all this Russia nonsense?
Miriam
Senator Al Franken. (photo: Getty)
Another Woman Says Franken Tried to Forcibly Kiss Her By Heather
Caygle, Politico
06 December 17
The Minnesota senator is accused of making an unwanted sexual
advance after a taping of his radio show in 2006. He denies the allegation.
former Democratic congressional aide said Al Franken tried to
forcibly kiss her after a taping of his radio show in 2006, three
years before he became a U.S. senator.
The aide, whose name POLITICO is withholding to protect her
identity, said Franken (D-Minn.) pursued her after her boss had left the
studio.
She said she was gathering her belongings to follow her boss out of
the room. When she turned around, Franken was in her face.
The former staffer ducked to avoid Franken's lips. As she hastily
left the room, she said, Franken told her: "It's my right as an
entertainer."
"He was between me and the door and he was coming at me to kiss me.
It was very quick and I think my brain had to work really hard to be
like 'Wait, what is happening?' But I knew whatever was happening
was not right and I ducked," the aide said in an interview. "I was
really startled by it and I just sort of booked it towards the door
and he said, 'It's my right as an entertainer.'"
The former staffer, who was in her mid-20s at the time of the
incident, said she did not respond to Franken.
The woman said she had never met Franken prior to the incident.
Franken was elected to the Senate in 2008 but began ramping up his
political activity in 2006.
Franken, who has been accused by six other women of groping or
trying to forcibly kiss them, denied the accusation.
"This allegation is categorically not true and the idea that I would
claim this as my right as an entertainer is preposterous. I look
forward to fully cooperating with the ongoing ethics committee
investigation," Franken said in a statement to POLITICO.
Two former colleagues of the woman independently corroborated her
version of events, including Franken telling her he had the right to
try to kiss her because he was "an entertainer." The first former
colleague interviewed by POLITICO said she was told of the incident
in 2006, shortly after it happened. The second former co-worker said
she was made aware of the encounter sometime in 2009 or 2010.
Hours after this story was published, more than a dozen Democratic
senators, led by Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand of New York, called on
Franken to resign.
"While Senator Franken is entitled to have the Ethics Committee
conclude its review, I believe it would be better for our country if
he sent a clear message that any kind of mistreatment of women in
our society isn't acceptable by stepping aside to let someone else serve,"
Gillibrand said in a Facebook post. She was referring to a Senate
Ethics Committee investigation of the sexual harassment claims
against Franken.
Franken will be making an announcement on Thursday, his office said
after the first wave of senators called for him to step down.
Franken's office did not provide information about the announcement,
only saying "more details to come."
Franken is one of several lawmakers and candidates facing sexual
harassment allegations, amid a national outcry over misconduct that
has roiled Hollywood, media and politics. On Tuesday, Rep. John
Conyers (D-Mich.) resigned after multiple former female aides
accused him of harassing them.
Conyers, the longest-serving member of the House, faced a drumbeat
of demands from top Democrats to step down. No Senate Democrats have
called on Franken to resign, though a smattering of House Democrats
have done so.
The former congressional aide, a longtime Democrat, said she is not
attempting to force Franken out of office by coming forward now. Her
aim is to encourage the former comedian to acknowledge that his
behavior towards her and other women was intentional.
"His resignation is not the top of the list there. That's not my point.
It's
not up to me what he does," the former staffer said.
Franken has said he was "ashamed" about the prior reported incidents
but has also said through a spokesperson that he "never
intentionally engaged in that kind of conduct."
The former staffer said a more direct statement of culpability - not
just differing recollections of events, as Franken has offered in
apologizing to other women - could help shift the national
conversation about sexual assault and push harassers to take
ownership of their behavior.
"I don't want to be in the position of deciding whether to tell this
story but I'm not the person who put me in that position. He did
that," the woman said. "I think for this moment in time to lead to
meaningful change there has to be more than 'I'm ashamed but I
remember things differently'
accounting."
The former staffer said she mostly kept the encounter to herself,
not even telling her boss at the time. But she started to talk more
openly about it to close friends after the "Access Hollywood" video
was aired in October 2016. In the now infamous tape, Donald Trump is
recorded saying his fame gives him carte blanche to grab women's
genitals.
"When it really started impacting me in more of a 'I'm really angry
about about this' way was last fall when the Trump tape came out,"
the former aide said. "Hearing Donald Trump say essentially the same
thing that Al Franken said to me, which was 'It's my right as an
entertainer,' that was a real trigger," she continued.
The former staffer says she was particularly shaken after seeing
Franken on TV responding to the Trump tape last year. Franken
dismissed Trump's excuse that he was just engaging in "locker room
talk" and joked that maybe Trump worked out with Roger Ailes, the
now deceased Fox News chairman who was forced to resign in 2016 amid
allegations he sexually harassed several Fox employees.
"It was a moment in time where I told a number of my friends about
my experience with Franken because I saw him on the news being asked
about the Trump tape and I felt like it was really hypocritical,"
the former staffer said. "It's a power dynamic and the fact that
Donald Trump could say that was not much different from the fact
that Al Franken could say it."
Franken took pains to separate himself from Trump earlier this year
before he was accused of sexual harassment, saying just because the
two were "both in a branch of show business" is no reason to lump
them in the same category politically.
"I consider myself a polar opposite of him, I mean I really do,"
Franken said on CNBC of Trump in September, two months before the
first sexual harassment allegations against the Minnesota Democrat
surfaced.
Franken has agreed to cooperate with a Senate Ethics Committee
investigation into his behavior.
"I do feel this very heavy responsibility to speak the truth," the
former staffer said. "I don't think that there are different
versions of truth and that's what's bothered me a lot about [his]
responses."
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