I would not call it barbaric. Nomadic pastoral cultures are not
inherently evil. However,I would use the word evil to describe honor
killings and genital mutilation. The word repulsive comes quickly to
mind too.
On 10/5/2018 7:56 AM, Bob Hachey wrote:
Hi Roger and all,
Well, these are the two books I have read recently on this topic. Daring to
Drive: A Saudi Woman's Awakening by Al-Sharif Manal and Infidel by Ali Ayaan
Hirsi. The first is a detailed account of a woman, her family and her efforts
to advocate for a woman's right to drive in Saudi Arabia. She talked very
specifically about how women need permission to hold a job or get an apartment
there. The book also makes vague references to honor killings and FGM. Frankly,
I'm not sure how prevalent FGM is in Saudi Arabia.
The second book is Ali Ayaan Hirsis' life story including the horrid details of
her mutilation at the hands of her grandmother and others. That one takes place
partly in Somalia where FGM and honor killings are more common. Incidentally,
Hirsi says that FGM is becoming more common in some of the Islamic communities
in European nations and even occurs here in America in cities such as Detroit.
I hope I have not misled any of you on these issues. I highly recommend both of
these books, but you'll need a strong stomach to read the second one. This may
sound anti-islamic, but I strongly believe that both FGM and honor killings are
barbaric.Then again, so is some of what is done by our military and the good
old CIA.
Bob Hachey
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Miriam Vieni
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2018 9:01 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Allegations and moral bleak
He's talking about a particular Islamic sect. The part about women drivers is
definitely true in Saudi Arabia. But the other practices are intrinsic in the
way certain people observe Islam. This is similar to Judaism in that there are
different branches of Judaism. The Orthodox branch is the most extreme, but it
can also be divided into various sects which are even more extreme then Modern
Orthodoxy. So when we start going into the particulars, we're bound to make
errors. I just finished reading the memoir of a Jewish woman who left the
Modern Orthodox branch and is attempting to describe her new, individual way of
relating to the Jewish religion. Reading about what she left, the absolute
insanity of the incredible number of rules that govern every bit of life when
you are Orthodox, reminded me of how naïve we are when we consider people who
are members of these extremist groups.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On
Behalf Of Roger Loran Bailey (Redacted sender "rogerbailey81" for DMARC)
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2018 8:01 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; Bob Hachey <bhachey@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Allegations and moral bleak
Not to mitigate the oppressive conditions for women in Saudi Arabia, but I
think you are attributing some practices that Pakistan and SubSaharan Africa
are known for to Saudi Arabia.
On 10/4/2018 7:00 AM, Bob Hachey wrote:
Hi Mostafa and all,
The US certainly does not hold a monopoly when it comes to misogyny and the subjugation
of women. For example, let's take a look at one of the shrines of Islam, the city of
Mecca. Mecca is located in Saudi Arabia where women gain the right to drive a car only a
few short months ago. The Saudis had a horrible history when it comes to treatment of
women. Women need permission from a husband or other male relative to obtain employment,
an apartment or a bank account. Some Saudis practice the horrible tradition of female
genital mutilation. Also, when women are raped, some men will do what's known as aan
"honor killing." The idea is that the victim has somehow dishonored her family
and by her death, that dishonor is dissolved.
I'll take life as a woman every day over life as a woman in Saudi Arabia.
This is not to excuse the way women are treated here in America. The point here
is that many religions and traditions throughout the world treat women badly.
Bob Hachey
