Miriam, most of the Italian interments during WWII were held in what used to be
the Ellis Island immigration hospital. I am not sure about the Germans.
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Miriam Vieni
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2020 5:13 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Abraham Accords: The War Pact Among Jim Crow
States of the Middle East
That, I never heard about. Well, I did read about a camp somewhere for
Germans, but it was a special category and given the fact that there was a book
about this on BARD and I read it, and now I can't remember what it was that
caused the government to define these people as especially dangerous, I must be
losing my mind. But I don't think the camp was in New York. And I remember
Germans, not Italians, being interned.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Andy Baracco
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2020 4:55 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Abraham Accords: The War Pact Among Jim Crow
States of the Middle East
And Italian Americans. my mother's cousin who lived in NYC was interned while
his son Eddie fought in the pacific against the Japanese.
Andy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Miriam Vieni" <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2020 1:31 PM
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Abraham Accords: The War Pact Among Jim Crow
States of the Middle East
Andy,
Yes, well the Jews began emigrating to Palestine in the late 1800's. But when
the Nazis came to power and the Jews tried to come here, they were not allowed
in. It had to do with US immigration policy in relation to Jews.
And remember, our government was receiving reports about what was going on in
Germany. It's interesting to contemplate. We look back with nostalgia at FDR
who gave us the New Deal, a social welfare state which served us well for 20 or
30 years. But it was under his administration that Jews, who were being
slaughtered in Germany, were not permitted asylum here and that Japanese
Americans were put in concentration camps.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Andy Baracco
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2020 4:01 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Abraham Accords: The War Pact Among Jim Crow
States of the Middle East
Miriam, what you say goes along with my understanding of the history. It is to
be noted that in the 1930s when Hitler was clamping down on its jewish
citizens, many attempted to immigrate to the U. S. but were turned away.
The history of persecutions of the Jews goes back thousands of years. After WW
II many Jews did not feel safe in any country, so sought a place where they
could have their own homeland.
Andy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Miriam Vieni" <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2020 12:37 PM
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Abraham Accords: The War Pact Among Jim Crow
States of the Middle East
Well actually, the not native Jews began emigrating to Palestine in the late
nineteenth century in small numbers. After WWII, the majority of European
Jews in the displaced persons' camps wanted to come to the US. But Zionist
representatives came to the camps for the purpose of convincing them to come
to Palestine instead. As a result, a large percentage changed their minds.
Unfortunately, I can't remember where I read this bit of history. But the
point was that the plan was to attract as many Jews as possible to Palestine
so that the case for a Jewish state could be made stronger.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Roger Loran Bailey
(Redacted sender "rogerbailey81" for DMARC)
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2020 2:48 PM
To: blind-democracy <blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Abraham Accords: The War Pact Among Jim Crow
States of the Middle East
As to who was there first, it was the Jews before they became Arabs. DNA
analyses have been done for both the Palestinian population and the native
Jewish populations and the comparison show them to be the same people. That
is, if it was in any other place in the world the DNA match is close enough
that it would be a comparison of people in the same ethnic group. Obviously,
at some time in history, the Palestinians converted to Islam and took up the
Arabic language. That probably happened in the first expansion of Islam out
of the Arabic peninsula.
The native Jews must be the ones who did not convert. Notice that I am
purposely using the word native. Other Jews have immigrated into Palestine
since the founding of Israel and these Jews from various parts of the world
have little in common with one another other than religion and sometimes not
even that. That is, secular Jews were offered the opportunity to immigrate
as well as the religious Jews. If you are talking about who was there first
then there is no room to argue. These not native Jews immigrated and settled
since 1949 and the record is very clear about that. They did not even speak
the same languages. Hebrew was revived so that they could communicate with
each other. And, by the way, the Palestinian Arabs and the Palestinian Jews,
that is, the native Jews, were getting along just fine until the Arabs were
thrown out of their homes to make room for all the foreign settlers.
___
Robert G. Ingersoll
“Progress is born of doubt and inquiry. The Church never doubts, never
inquires. To doubt is heresy, to inquire is to admit that you do not
know—the Church does neither.”
― Robert G. Ingersoll,
On 9/16/2020 11:56 PM, Andy Baracco wrote:
Well, i don't want to get into a pissing contest about who was there
first, etc.
All I will say is that this part of the world has been fought over,
conquered, and reconquered for thousands of years. Why! I don't
know, but that is the way it has been.
In fact, being italian, I could probably make a case for the italians,
being that Palestine was part of the Roman empire for hundreds of years.
All I'm trying to say is that the issue is complicated, and that the
approaches previously taken have not worked. I do agree with You and
Miriam that the Palestinians have to be a part of a successful
solution to bring peace to the area.
Andy
----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Loran Bailey (Redacted
sender "rogerbailey81" for DMARC)" <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "blind-democracy" <blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2020 8:36 PM
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Abraham Accords: The War Pact Among Jim
Crow States of the Middle East
The amount of influence the PLO has is variable and its influence
used to be more than it is now. However, it has had a good deal of
influence. You asked, though, if the Palestinians would go for a
secular Palestine in which Jews, Muslims and others can live on an
equal footing with each other as if there is something about being
Palestinian that requires one to reject equality. Not only is that an
expression of plain bigotry, but it ignores that very large
organizations and very large portions of the Palestinian population
have been working for that very thing for years and decades. The
stereotype you offer of Palestinians as being rabid war mongers as a
description of their fightback against being expelled from their
homes, having violence perpetrated against them and being legally
relegated to second and third class citizenship when they are allowed
citizenship in their own country at all is disgusting at the very
least. It is hard to describe such an attitude as anything but
right-wing hateful bigotry.
___
Robert G. Ingersoll
“Progress is born of doubt and inquiry. The Church never doubts,
never inquires. To doubt is heresy, to inquire is to admit that you
do not know—the Church does neither.”
― Robert G. Ingersoll,
On 9/16/2020 10:55 PM, Andy Baracco wrote:
These days, in the 21st century, just how much influence does the
PLO have among the Palestinians?
Andy
----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Loran Bailey (Redacted
sender "rogerbailey81" for DMARC)" <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "blind-democracy" <blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2020 7:41 PM
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Abraham Accords: The War Pact Among
Jim Crow States of the Middle East
Would the Palestinians go for it? That has been the Palestine
Liberation Organization's positions from its founding. Have you
never paid attention to the PLO's positions on anything?
___
Robert G. Ingersoll
“Progress is born of doubt and inquiry. The Church never doubts,
never inquires. To doubt is heresy, to inquire is to admit that you
do not know—the Church does neither.”
― Robert G. Ingersoll,
On 9/16/2020 10:05 PM, Andy Baracco wrote:
That would be the desirable outcome, but would the palestinians go
for it? Also, there are many Israelis that may have a problem with
that.
Andy
----- Original Message ----- From: "Miriam Vieni"
<miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2020 6:27 PM
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Abraham Accords: The War Pact Among
Jim Crow States of the Middle East
Andy,
First of all, you probably are unaware of this, but Hamas exists
because Israel encouraged its development and second of all, it
has two arms. Its political arm accepts the existence of Israel.
But additionally, some of the Jewish Americans who were strong
supporters of Israel, now agree that what is needed is one
secular state with equality for all citizens, regardless of
whether they are Jewish, Muslim, or Christian, inclusive of all
ethnicities.
Certainly, its people may choose to call it Israel, if they wish.
If I
weren't so old that I keep forgetting names, I'd tell you, at
this point, the name of the latest person, very well known who
recently made a stir by writing an op ed, I believe in the New
York Times, stating is support for a one state solution with
equality for all. Another fact of which you may be unaware, most
Palestinians are not active Hamas supporters.
Israel was very
canny and cynical in encouraging the fragmentation of the
Palestinian leadership. The majority of Palestinians are just
trying to survive on a day to day basis. For a time, before
someone who was helping me with the computer, accidentally did
something which caused me to get tossed off it, I was on an email
list run out of Israel, by a woman in her eighties who was a
member of an Israeli peace group. There were Israelis, Israeli
journalists, Palestinians, and Americans on that list. They
posted stuff about day to day life for Palestinians. There's so
much information that most people here don't know about. I'll
forward some of the email digests from websites. But if you're
going to feel like you need to argue with any article I post,
even when your arguments are based on the misinformation that is
spread by Israeli interests, then you may not be open to what's
on the websites. There's a book on Bookshare called The Ethnic
Cleansing of Palestine, written by an Israeli historian. He
actdually has several books that are on Bookshare. There's Miko
Peled, an Israeli American, son of an Israeli General, whose
articles are all over the place and who has a podcast. There's
Max Blumenthal whose book Goliath, (can't remember the whole
title), describes Israel, and who is the son of Sidney
Blumenthal, an Israel supporter. The subject is so complex
because so much of what has been happening in the Middle East,
including the 9/11 attacks, is inextricably tied to the US
support of Israel. One other thing you should know. All of us saw
Israel as a gift to Jewish people as recompense for what the
Nazis did to them. But the Zionists were planning to take over
all of Palestine and turn it into a Jewish homeland before Hitler
came to power.
This is documented. I've read historical articles describing Ben
Gurion's writings on the subject in the early 1930's. I do
remember thinking at one time that the Palestinians should just
accept the fact that they'd lost and Israel had one, and they
should just turn the page. But here I am, an old blind, hearing
impaired, physically disabled woman, who is physically dependent
on other people for most things, and I cannot accept it when they
treat me like a non person, when what I say doesn't count, when
people don't feel that they need to ask me what I want or need or
think. So I can imagine what it's like for a people, with
individuals of varying degrees of education, skills,
intelligence, people with different religions, and a cultural
tradition, are treated by the whole world as if they count for
nothing because a group of Zionists want their land. I'm
forwarding an Analysis.News podcast to the list. Phyllis Dennis,
the person being interviewed, is Jewish.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Andy Baracco
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2020 7:33 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Abraham Accords: The War Pact
Among Jim Crow States of the Middle East
Well, the state of israel isn't going anywhere, so we need to see
what the palestinians are willing to accept short of the
destruction of Israel. one problem is the influence and control
of Hamas, which is nothing more than a gang of thugs and a client
of Iran. I think that the thrust of the accord is not so much the
issue of the Palestinians, but Iran, who is really the bad guy in
the area.
Andy
----- Original Message ----- From: "Miriam Vieni"
<miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2020 4:16 PM
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Abraham Accords: The War Pact
Among Jim Crow States of the Middle East
Andy,
I'm Jewish and I remember when Israel was formed. And for many
years, I was a supporter of Israel. But like many people, I
didn't know the entire history, nor could I be objective because
such terrible things had happened to my people. I thought they
deserved a refuge. I bought all of the lies that were fed to us.
But even at the age of ten, which is the age I was when the
State of Israel was proclaimed, I knew that there was something
wrong as my relatives sat in my parents living room and
rationalized taking the homes and land away from the Palestinian
people who had been living on it for centuries. I remember the
excuses they gave because what they said, didn't sound right.
They said that the Palestinians could just move to other Arab
countries who would take them in. They said that it was OK for
Jews to take their land because Jews would do more with it,
would be better farmers, were more educated and intelligent,
were more deserving. Just think about that for a little while.
Think about the fact that 800,000 people were removed from their
homes, a huge percentage of whom were murdered, and the rest
were sent to crowded ill equipped refugee camps in other
countries where they've been ever since. And the Palestinians
who remained in Israel proper , the ones who were allowed
citizenship, were literally, second class citizens, because they
weren't Jewish and, therefore, they didn't have the same legal
rights as Jews. And the ones who lived on the West Bank were an
occupied people with no rights at all who, little by little,
have had all of their land and their homes and their rights
stolen. When I was in graduate school, I was planning to visit
Israel with my cousin. I was a naive and fervent supporter. The
only reason I didn't go, had something to do with the nastiness
of my advisor in graduate school who said that if I had the
money for a trip to Israel, I didn't need my fellowship for the
second year of graduate study. Back then, everything that I knew
came from radio, TV, movies, novels, and the Jewish
establishment. That was in 1960.
By the
time
the 1990's came along, I was in favor of a two state solution.
I'd gotten
to
know more about Israel from some of my adoption clients who were
Israeli Americans and from one woman who was not Israeli, but
had lived in Israel for a time. I learned that Israel was not
the Democratic country that I thought it was, but a Theocracy
where Jews who were not white and European, were treated very
badly and Palestinians were despised. But I still didn't know
all of the facts, not until I was able to read books from
Bookshare and hear what was happening in Gaza on democracy Now,
and read articles by people who weren't featured in The New York
Times. And I'll add this question for you to just think about.
If your home was stolen and you were forced to live in a refugee
camp and your accomplishments and traditions were despised, what
would your response be? Would you respond like Jesus or Ghandi
or Martin Luther King Jr. or would you be tempted to fight back?
After the fighting back, for about two years, the people who
have been systematically starved and bombed to death in Gaza
have been peacefully demonstrating in an area as close as they
can get to the border that separates them from Israel. And
During all of these peaceful protests which haven't been
reported in our press, they have been physically attacked,
killed, or seriously maimed by Israeli soldiers who claim to be
"the most moral army in the world.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Andy Baracco
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2020 6:17 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Abraham Accords: The War Pact
Among Jim Crow States of the Middle East
You can't negotiate for peace with people who don't want peace.
The Palestinians want only one thing, the destruction of Israel,
and nothing less. The accord will start the process of isolating
the Palestinians because it will cut off their funding sources.
It will also ultimately weaken Iran's influence in the area.
Andy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Miriam Vieni" <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2020 2:49 PM
Subject: [blind-democracy] Abraham Accords: The War Pact Among
Jim Crow States of the Middle East
Abraham Accords: The War Pact Among Jim Crow States of thestealth. .
Middle East JUAN COLE
09/16/2020
Ann Arbor (Informed Comment) - The Middle Eastern parties to
the "Abraham Accords," Bahrain, the United Arab Emirates, and
Israel, did not make peace by signing them. The small Arab Gulf
principalities have long had behind-the-scenes relations with
Israel and Israeli firms. They weren't at war with the
Israelis. As members of the Arab League, they did in public
observe some elements of that organization's embargo, such that
they did not have diplomatic relations with Tel Aviv (that is
where their embassies will be). But Egypt is a member of the
Arab League (after having been expelled for a few years from
1979) despite having a peace treaty with Israel, and so is
Jordan. So adherence to the embargo is not anyway universal or
a requirement for membership.
Embed from Getty Images
(Photo by Alex Wong/Getty Images).
The state-owned Dubai Ports company admitted as far back as
2006 that
it dealt with Israeli firms.
The accords are in fact a war agreement among three heavily armed
Middle East states characterized by a version of Jim Crow society.
The Israeli government is militarily Occupying five million
stateless
and rights-less Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza. The
government
of PM Binyamin Netanyahu is determined forever to keep them
stateless,
and every day encroaches further on their land, property and human
rights.
The Emirates is a tiny country of about a million citizens and 8
million guest workers with no political rights. It is run as seven
absolute monarchies with oil-rich Abu Dhabi primus inter pares,
with
its crown prince Mohammed Bin Zayed al-Nahayan in charge. Bin
Zayed
has developed ambitions of regional hegemony. He has pursued a
brutal
and ruinous war in Yemen, where his campaigns and those of his
Saudi
and other allies have displaced millions of poor Yemenis and
driven
much of the country to food insecurity and the brink of
starvation.
The United Nations has accused the UAE of war crimes in Yemen.
The UAE
also has wider ambitions throughout the Arabian Sea and Red Sea
regions, in Eritrea even as far away as Libya.
I wrote last month,
"Matthew Lee of AP reports, Trump broached the sale of Lockheed
Martin
F-35
Lightning II Stealth fighter jets to the UAE. Trump said, "They
have
the money and they would like to order quite a few F-35s. It's the
greatest fighter jet in the world, as you know, by stealth,
totally
They'd
like to buy F-35s, we'll see what happens. It's under review,
but they
made a great advance in peace in the Middle East . . . One F-35
retails for roughly $100 million. BBC Monitoring translates a
report
in the Israeli newspaper Yediot Aharonot that alleges a high UAE
official told its correspondent that "The aircraft are part of the
deal." That is, an arms deal was part of the agreement between
the two
countries, and that the US would sell Abu Dhabi F-35s was openly
specified.' So the United Arab Emirates made the treaty with
Israel
not to bring peace to the Middle East but to ensure that it is
armed
to the teeth.
Despite all the talk about allying against Iran, the ambitions
of the
UAE are for military expansionism to the west and south. It
already
has a US security umbrella against Iran.
Mohammed Bin Zayed, by the way, did not come for the signing,
possibly
because the FBI wants to question him about his suspected role in
campaign interference on behalf of Trump in 2016 and his secret
visit
to Trump Tower in December of that year when Obama was still
president.
Bahrain is also a small country, a set of islands, with a
population
of about 1.5 million. Roughly two-thirds are Shiites. The Sunni
monarchy of Bahrain thusly rules over a Shiite majority that is
systematically discriminated against and deprived of basic human
rights. The government crushed the democracy movement of 2011
ruthlessly, and Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates sent in
small troop contingents to help. The major vehicle of majority
Shiite
political aspiration, the Wefaq Party, has been dissolved and its
leader sentenced to life imprisonment for thought crimes.
