Well actually, the not native Jews began emigrating to Palestine in the late
nineteenth century in small numbers. After WWII, the majority of European Jews
in the displaced persons' camps wanted to come to the US. But Zionist
representatives came to the camps for the purpose of convincing them to come to
Palestine instead. As a result, a large percentage changed their minds.
Unfortunately, I can't remember where I read this bit of history. But the
point was that the plan was to attract as many Jews as possible to Palestine so
that the case for a Jewish state could be made stronger.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Roger Loran Bailey
(Redacted sender "rogerbailey81" for DMARC)
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2020 2:48 PM
To: blind-democracy <blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Abraham Accords: The War Pact Among Jim Crow
States of the Middle East
As to who was there first, it was the Jews before they became Arabs. DNA
analyses have been done for both the Palestinian population and the native
Jewish populations and the comparison show them to be the same people. That is,
if it was in any other place in the world the DNA match is close enough that it
would be a comparison of people in the same ethnic group. Obviously, at some
time in history, the Palestinians converted to Islam and took up the Arabic
language. That probably happened in the first expansion of Islam out of the
Arabic peninsula.
The native Jews must be the ones who did not convert. Notice that I am
purposely using the word native. Other Jews have immigrated into Palestine
since the founding of Israel and these Jews from various parts of the world
have little in common with one another other than religion and sometimes not
even that. That is, secular Jews were offered the opportunity to immigrate as
well as the religious Jews. If you are talking about who was there first then
there is no room to argue. These not native Jews immigrated and settled since
1949 and the record is very clear about that. They did not even speak the same
languages. Hebrew was revived so that they could communicate with each other.
And, by the way, the Palestinian Arabs and the Palestinian Jews, that is, the
native Jews, were getting along just fine until the Arabs were thrown out of
their homes to make room for all the foreign settlers.
___
Robert G. Ingersoll
“Progress is born of doubt and inquiry. The Church never doubts, never
inquires. To doubt is heresy, to inquire is to admit that you do not know—the
Church does neither.”
― Robert G. Ingersoll,
On 9/16/2020 11:56 PM, Andy Baracco wrote:
Well, i don't want to get into a pissing contest about who was there
first, etc.
All I will say is that this part of the world has been fought over,
conquered, and reconquered for thousands of years. Why! I don't
know, but that is the way it has been.
In fact, being italian, I could probably make a case for the italians,
being that Palestine was part of the Roman empire for hundreds of years.
All I'm trying to say is that the issue is complicated, and that the
approaches previously taken have not worked. I do agree with You and
Miriam that the Palestinians have to be a part of a successful
solution to bring peace to the area.
Andy
----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Loran Bailey (Redacted
sender "rogerbailey81" for DMARC)" <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "blind-democracy" <blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2020 8:36 PM
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Abraham Accords: The War Pact Among Jim
Crow States of the Middle East
The amount of influence the PLO has is variable and its influence
used to be more than it is now. However, it has had a good deal of
influence. You asked, though, if the Palestinians would go for a
secular Palestine in which Jews, Muslims and others can live on an
equal footing with each other as if there is something about being
Palestinian that requires one to reject equality. Not only is that an
expression of plain bigotry, but it ignores that very large
organizations and very large portions of the Palestinian population
have been working for that very thing for years and decades. The
stereotype you offer of Palestinians as being rabid war mongers as a
description of their fightback against being expelled from their
homes, having violence perpetrated against them and being legally
relegated to second and third class citizenship when they are allowed
citizenship in their own country at all is disgusting at the very
least. It is hard to describe such an attitude as anything but
right-wing hateful bigotry.
___
Robert G. Ingersoll
“Progress is born of doubt and inquiry. The Church never doubts,
never inquires. To doubt is heresy, to inquire is to admit that you
do not know—the Church does neither.”
― Robert G. Ingersoll,
On 9/16/2020 10:55 PM, Andy Baracco wrote:
These days, in the 21st century, just how much influence does the
PLO have among the Palestinians?
Andy
----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Loran Bailey (Redacted
sender "rogerbailey81" for DMARC)" <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "blind-democracy" <blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2020 7:41 PM
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Abraham Accords: The War Pact Among
Jim Crow States of the Middle East
Would the Palestinians go for it? That has been the Palestine
Liberation Organization's positions from its founding. Have you
never paid attention to the PLO's positions on anything?
___
Robert G. Ingersoll
“Progress is born of doubt and inquiry. The Church never doubts,
never inquires. To doubt is heresy, to inquire is to admit that you
do not know—the Church does neither.”
― Robert G. Ingersoll,
On 9/16/2020 10:05 PM, Andy Baracco wrote:
That would be the desirable outcome, but would the palestinians go
for it? Also, there are many Israelis that may have a problem with
that.
Andy
----- Original Message ----- From: "Miriam Vieni"
<miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2020 6:27 PM
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Abraham Accords: The War Pact Among
Jim Crow States of the Middle East
Andy,
First of all, you probably are unaware of this, but Hamas exists
because Israel encouraged its development and second of all, it
has two arms. Its political arm accepts the existence of Israel.
But additionally, some of the Jewish Americans who were strong
supporters of Israel, now agree that what is needed is one
secular state with equality for all citizens, regardless of
whether they are Jewish, Muslim, or Christian, inclusive of all
ethnicities.
Certainly, its people may choose to call it Israel, if they wish.
If I
weren't so old that I keep forgetting names, I'd tell you, at
this point, the name of the latest person, very well known who
recently made a stir by writing an op ed, I believe in the New
York Times, stating is support for a one state solution with
equality for all. Another fact of which you may be unaware, most
Palestinians are not active Hamas supporters.
Israel was very
canny and cynical in encouraging the fragmentation of the
Palestinian leadership. The majority of Palestinians are just
trying to survive on a day to day basis. For a time, before
someone who was helping me with the computer, accidentally did
something which caused me to get tossed off it, I was on an email
list run out of Israel, by a woman in her eighties who was a
member of an Israeli peace group. There were Israelis, Israeli
journalists, Palestinians, and Americans on that list. They
posted stuff about day to day life for Palestinians. There's so
much information that most people here don't know about. I'll
forward some of the email digests from websites. But if you're
going to feel like you need to argue with any article I post,
even when your arguments are based on the misinformation that is
spread by Israeli interests, then you may not be open to what's
on the websites. There's a book on Bookshare called The Ethnic
Cleansing of Palestine, written by an Israeli historian. He
actdually has several books that are on Bookshare. There's Miko
Peled, an Israeli American, son of an Israeli General, whose
articles are all over the place and who has a podcast. There's
Max Blumenthal whose book Goliath, (can't remember the whole
title), describes Israel, and who is the son of Sidney
Blumenthal, an Israel supporter. The subject is so complex
because so much of what has been happening in the Middle East,
including the 9/11 attacks, is inextricably tied to the US
support of Israel. One other thing you should know. All of us saw
Israel as a gift to Jewish people as recompense for what the
Nazis did to them. But the Zionists were planning to take over
all of Palestine and turn it into a Jewish homeland before Hitler
came to power.
This is documented. I've read historical articles describing Ben
Gurion's writings on the subject in the early 1930's. I do
remember thinking at one time that the Palestinians should just
accept the fact that they'd lost and Israel had one, and they
should just turn the page. But here I am, an old blind, hearing
impaired, physically disabled woman, who is physically dependent
on other people for most things, and I cannot accept it when they
treat me like a non person, when what I say doesn't count, when
people don't feel that they need to ask me what I want or need or
think. So I can imagine what it's like for a people, with
individuals of varying degrees of education, skills,
intelligence, people with different religions, and a cultural
tradition, are treated by the whole world as if they count for
nothing because a group of Zionists want their land. I'm
forwarding an Analysis.News podcast to the list. Phyllis Dennis,
the person being interviewed, is Jewish.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Andy Baracco
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2020 7:33 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Abraham Accords: The War Pact
Among Jim Crow States of the Middle East
Well, the state of israel isn't going anywhere, so we need to see
what the palestinians are willing to accept short of the
destruction of Israel. one problem is the influence and control
of Hamas, which is nothing more than a gang of thugs and a client
of Iran. I think that the thrust of the accord is not so much the
issue of the Palestinians, but Iran, who is really the bad guy in
the area.
Andy
----- Original Message ----- From: "Miriam Vieni"
<miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2020 4:16 PM
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Abraham Accords: The War Pact
Among Jim Crow States of the Middle East
Andy,
I'm Jewish and I remember when Israel was formed. And for many
years, I
was
a supporter of Israel. But like many people, I didn't know the
entire
history, nor could I be objective because such terrible things had
happened
to my people. I thought they deserved a refuge. I bought all of
the lies
that were fed to us. But even at the age of ten, which is the
age I was
when
the State of Israel was proclaimed, I knew that there was
something wrong
as
my relatives sat in my parents living room and rationalized
taking the
homes
and land away from the Palestinian people who had been living on
it for
centuries. I remember the excuses they gave because what they
said, didn't
sound right. They said that the Palestinians could just move to
other Arab
countries who would take them in. They said that it was OK for
Jews to
take
their land because Jews would do more with it, would be better
farmers,
were
more educated and intelligent, were more deserving. Just think
about that
for a little while. Think about the fact that 800,000 people
were removed
from their homes, a huge percentage of whom were murdered, and
the rest
were
sent to crowded ill equipped refugee camps in other countries where
they've
been ever since. And the Palestinians who remained in Israel
proper , the
ones who were allowed citizenship, were literally, second class
citizens,
because they weren't Jewish and, therefore, they didn't have the
same
legal
rights as Jews. And the ones who lived on the West Bank were an
occupied
people with no rights at all who, little by little, have had all
of their
land and their homes and their rights stolen. When I was in
graduate
school,
I was planning to visit Israel with my cousin. I was a naive and
fervent
supporter. The only reason I didn't go, had something to do with
the
nastiness of my advisor in graduate school who said that if I
had the
money
for a trip to Israel, I didn't need my fellowship for the second
year of
graduate study. Back then, everything that I knew came from
radio, TV,
movies, novels, and the Jewish establishment. That was in 1960.
By the
time
the 1990's came along, I was in favor of a two state solution.
I'd gotten
to
know more about Israel from some of my adoption clients who were
Israeli
Americans and from one woman who was not Israeli, but had lived
in Israel
for a time. I learned that Israel was not the Democratic country
that I
thought it was, but a Theocracy where Jews who were not white and
European,
were treated very badly and Palestinians were despised. But I
still didn't
know all of the facts, not until I was able to read books from
Bookshare
and
hear what was happening in Gaza on democracy Now, and read
articles by
people who weren't featured in The New York Times. And I'll add
this
question for you to just think about. If your home was stolen
and you were
forced to live in a refugee camp and your accomplishments and
traditions
were despised, what would your response be? Would you respond
like Jesus
or
Ghandi or Martin Luther King Jr. or would you be tempted to
fight back?
After the fighting back, for about two years, the people who
have been
systematically starved and bombed to death in Gaza have been
peacefully
demonstrating in an area as close as they can get to the border
that
separates them from Israel. And During all of these peaceful
protests
which
haven't been reported in our press, they have been physically
attacked,
killed, or seriously maimed by Israeli soldiers who claim to be
"the most
moral army in the world.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Andy Baracco
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2020 6:17 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Abraham Accords: The War Pact
Among Jim
Crow
States of the Middle East
You can't negotiate for peace with people who don't want peace. The
Palestinians want only one thing, the destruction of Israel, and
nothing
less. The accord will start the process of isolating the
Palestinians
because it will cut off their funding sources. It will also
ultimately
weaken Iran's influence in the area.
Andy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Miriam Vieni" <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2020 2:49 PM
Subject: [blind-democracy] Abraham Accords: The War Pact Among
Jim Crow
States of the Middle East
Abraham Accords: The War Pact Among Jim Crow States of thestealth. .
Middle East
JUAN COLE
09/16/2020
Ann Arbor (Informed Comment) - The Middle Eastern parties to the
"Abraham Accords," Bahrain, the United Arab Emirates, and
Israel, did
not make peace by signing them. The small Arab Gulf principalities
have long had behind-the-scenes relations with Israel and Israeli
firms. They weren't at war with the Israelis. As members of the
Arab
League, they did in public observe some elements of that
organization's embargo, such that they did not have diplomatic
relations with Tel Aviv (that is where their embassies will
be). But
Egypt is a member of the Arab League (after having been
expelled for a
few years from 1979) despite having a peace treaty with Israel,
and so
is Jordan. So adherence to the embargo is not anyway universal
or a
requirement for membership.
Embed from Getty Images
(Photo by Alex Wong/Getty Images).
The state-owned Dubai Ports company admitted as far back as
2006 that
it dealt with Israeli firms.
The accords are in fact a war agreement among three heavily armed
Middle East states characterized by a version of Jim Crow society.
The Israeli government is militarily Occupying five million
stateless
and rights-less Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza. The
government
of PM Binyamin Netanyahu is determined forever to keep them
stateless,
and every day encroaches further on their land, property and human
rights.
The Emirates is a tiny country of about a million citizens and 8
million guest workers with no political rights. It is run as seven
absolute monarchies with oil-rich Abu Dhabi primus inter pares,
with
its crown prince Mohammed Bin Zayed al-Nahayan in charge. Bin
Zayed
has developed ambitions of regional hegemony. He has pursued a
brutal
and ruinous war in Yemen, where his campaigns and those of his
Saudi
and other allies have displaced millions of poor Yemenis and
driven
much of the country to food insecurity and the brink of
starvation.
The United Nations has accused the UAE of war crimes in Yemen.
The UAE
also has wider ambitions throughout the Arabian Sea and Red Sea
regions, in Eritrea even as far away as Libya.
I wrote last month,
"Matthew Lee of AP reports, Trump broached the sale of Lockheed
Martin
F-35
Lightning II Stealth fighter jets to the UAE. Trump said, "They
have
the money and they would like to order quite a few F-35s. It's the
greatest fighter jet in the world, as you know, by stealth,
totally
They'd
like to buy F-35s, we'll see what happens. It's under review,
but they
made a great advance in peace in the Middle East . . . One F-35
retails for roughly $100 million. BBC Monitoring translates a
report
in the Israeli newspaper Yediot Aharonot that alleges a high UAE
official told its correspondent that "The aircraft are part of the
deal." That is, an arms deal was part of the agreement between
the two
countries, and that the US would sell Abu Dhabi F-35s was openly
specified.' So the United Arab Emirates made the treaty with
Israel
not to bring peace to the Middle East but to ensure that it is
armed
to the teeth.
Despite all the talk about allying against Iran, the ambitions
of the
UAE are for military expansionism to the west and south. It
already
has a US security umbrella against Iran.
Mohammed Bin Zayed, by the way, did not come for the signing,
possibly
because the FBI wants to question him about his suspected role in
campaign interference on behalf of Trump in 2016 and his secret
visit
to Trump Tower in December of that year when Obama was still
president.
Bahrain is also a small country, a set of islands, with a
population
of about 1.5 million. Roughly two-thirds are Shiites. The Sunni
monarchy of Bahrain thusly rules over a Shiite majority that is
systematically discriminated against and deprived of basic human
rights. The government crushed the democracy movement of 2011
ruthlessly, and Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates sent in
small troop contingents to help. The major vehicle of majority
Shiite
political aspiration, the Wefaq Party, has been dissolved and its
leader sentenced to life imprisonment for thought crimes.
