Carl, what is interesting that the far right pundits will point out that not
every cop in the department was involved in each killing. However, in context
of law enforcement you need to take into account the terms conspiracy,
collaboration, and acting in concert. All cops are sworn to protect each other
under any circumstance. It may be refusing to testify, lying to investigators,
withholding evidence, intimidating witnesses, or any number of other actions or
lack of action. This is no different from the often cited example of the bank
robbery where the get away driver never entered the bank or handled the stolen
money but is equally culpable. In fact this loyalty is so strong that in NYC it
is part of the oath that officers swear to when they join the PBA.
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Carl Jarvis
Sent: Thursday, June 4, 2020 11:46 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: General discussion list for ACB members and friends where a wide range of
topics from blindness to politics, issues of the day or whatever comes to mind
are welcome. This is a free form discussion list. <acb-chat@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: [ACB-chat] the misuse of, "all" "always" "never"
"all of them"
Good Thursday Morning All.
It appears that this thread has tangled both the ACB chat list and the Blind
Democracy list. My apologies to those who wish to be left alone.
Frank, while I think you often(not Always)make good sense, I do disagree with
your final observation, when you wrote, "...when it comes to justice for
criminal cops, the system fails." I would suggest that the system, with only a
few exceptions, does not fail.
It does exactly what it is in place to do, provide protection that enables the
police to do what they believe to be needed, in order to maintain "the peace".
What I protest is that the Laws that govern us, are not applied equally. For
example, just to go to the ridiculous, I have never seen three police officers
holding down a Slum Lord who just evicted a single mother and her children.
I've always(there's that problem word, Clifford)known that America's Law and
Order were in place to protect our mostly White, Male Oligarchy.
Only once have I ever tried to obtain "justice" through our Courts.
After laying out close to $6,000 in preparation costs, we were informed that
going before a jury would cost more than our piggy bank contained. And our
odds of winning were very slim. If we won, not only would our pasture be
saved, and our septic system preserved, but court costs would be handled by the
loser. But if we lost, the entire affair would have exceeded $15,000 to
20,000. We chose to absorb the
$6,000 and let the beaver pond engulf our pasture and threaten our septic
system. But fortunately, in our case, a much more fundamental System stepped
in and saved us. Mother Nature! One fine night Mother Nature burst the beaver
dam and sent all the water down through our neighbor's property. The beavers
finally gave up trying to rebuild, and moved off our creek.
But now that I've ranted, and , as Always, feel better, my point is that the
Law is not set in place to defend the poor, or even the working/middle classes.
It is an expensive process, and is designed to protect the rights and
properties of our First Class Citizens, and even at its best, can take years of
expensive legal finagling.
But even so, the Law is not Always the winner. That is due to the fact that
the Law is designed by, and administered by a weak link...Humans.
Finally, I do not consider myself to be anti American. I am a deeply concerned
Citizen, doing what I can do to bring about reforms that will benefit All
Americans. And hopefully help us to really drain this stinking swamp and save
democracy.
Carl Jarvis
On 6/4/20, Frank Ventura <frank.ventura@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi Cliff, I read your statement about waiting for the judicial process
to run its course. I am slightly younger than you but still consider
myself an old-timer. One of the reasons you are seeing so much anger
that for those of us who have lived our entire lives in urban
environments we have seen that very same justice system fail us time
and time again when it comes to prosecuting crimes committed by cops.
In most cases the blue wall of silence prevents all but the most
publicized cases from being investigated. Internal affairs are put
under pressure to look the other way. The bigger the department the
bigger the pressure. In the small minority of cases that go forward if
there is no media attention there is no prosecution. When my
grandfather was killed in the Bronx my mother eventually received a
letter that the cop's action were unjustified and that the complaint
review board found it was homicide. Even with that in hand the
district attorney refused to bring criminal charges. That 8 by 11
piece of paper in the cop's file was the extent of the discipline. He
retired on a full disability pension. Now lets look at that even
smaller, miniscule, amount of crimes serious committed by cops that
actually are prosecuted. City cops usually elect to waive the jury and
get tried by a judge. The thinking is that it is easier to intimidate
one person than a whole jury, and they are right. Further to that
point the Fraternal order of Police and Police benevolent associations
are very good at reminding prosecutors and judges just how much they
need cops to do their jobs and that is why they should "do the right
thing" when it comes to trying cops. One of the tricks that they like
to do is at the very last minute before the trial the judge agrees to
move the trial out of the city to a court far out into the suburbs.
Usually that is enough to keep the witnesses from testifying. Poor
city folks have little or no chance of making it 40 or 50 miles out of
the city to a court they aren't ever told where it is. Worse still for
some witnesses that do make it through the maze of witness
intimidation, sadly and scary is that they simply disappear just prior
to the hearings, never to be heard from again. If you think this
sounds like an old time radio drama then think again. In a city of
more than
9 million people it is not to hard to make a few individuals just
plain disappear. And, yes I know of folks who have gone missing. Your
loved one is set to testify at a hearing against a cop and she
suddenly disappears. What are you going to do? Call the cops,
seriously? Now lets look at the few very rare cases where prosecutors
actually do their jobs, witnesses aren't intimidated, and evidence
isn't "mishandled". Often, even with all of those things in place, the
judges simply ignore all of that and let the cop off the hook. Even
TV's "Judge Judy" has a connection to a case where that happened. If
you research doesn't find what the connection is, let me know and I'll
tell you. Now in the particular case of George Floyd some folks are
parallels to the murder of Eric Gardner. Although there is validity in
that, old timers like myself can remember even farther back, to a
similar case in the Bronx. A teenager was playing football with a
buddy. A cop was sleeping in his patrol car. The noise woke the cops
up. That angered him to the point where he choked to death the kid.
The cop got off and actually today is a paid consultant to many of our
nation's police forces. He gets paid to coach the cops on how to kill
and get away with it (link below my name). Nice work if you can get it eh?
The long and short of it is that when it comes to justice for criminal cops,
the system fails.
Frank
https://thechiefleader.com/news/news_of_the_week/livoti-now-a-consulta
nt-rogue-cop-airbrushes-past/article_9746b9bb-83e1-54fc-abad-5cb537e90
a14.html
From: acb-chat <acb-chat-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of clifford
via acb-chat
Sent: Wednesday, June 3, 2020 9:51 PM
To: 'General discussion list for ACB members and friends where a wide
range of topics from blindness to politics, issues of the day or
whatever comes to mind are welcome. This is a free form discussion list.'
<acb-chat@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: clifford@xxxxxxx
Subject: [acb-chat] the misuse of, "all" "always" "never" "all of them"
Dear List Members:
I was taught long ago to avoid the use of some words,
unless I am dealing with a law of physics. I am amazed at the posts
to this list which characterize "all cops" or "all blacks" "all
rioters are white agitator's" "all demonstrators are peaceful"
We are seeing the use of the notion that just because
one person, whether or not that person is wearing the police uniform
or that person is throwing a bottle of gasoline with a lit wick means
all cops or all demonstrators are corrupt.
The basis for illegal discrimination rests on the proposition that all
of us are individuals and the actions of one of our number is not a
reflection on all who fall in to that category.
I am wondering whether or not the cop who put his knee
on Mr. Floyd had a past relationship with Mr. Floyd. If it turns out
they have had difficulties in the past, then murder in the first
degree should be charged.
Riots are not the way to try cases, as we need all of
the facts, and not just some information about the last minutes of Mr.
Floyd's life.
There are no doubt some men and women who are not
suited for police work, and those folks should be weeded out by the
departments. Here in Tennessee, there are dedicated officers who's
only job is to investigate complaints against other officers, and I
happen to know one of those officers, and he is dedicated to his work,
as it is his thinking that weeding out the bad cops is important to
the success of his agency and in order to help attain the respect
needed in order for police work to have the support of the public.
When it comes to the luting, burning, and rioting
which is shown on the news each evening, I suggest that anyone
engaging in such conduct should be at risk of having deadly force
applied to them, regardless of the color of their skin or their
pedigree. I noticed this evening where to attorneys were arrested in
New York City for throwing fire bombs in to a police cruiser With
police inside. The mob mentality is a strange animal. Folks will
carry out acts in that atmosphere that they would normally never do.
It seems that many of the political enemies of
President Trump are also stoking the fires of unrest, as witnessed on
this list. The idea seems to be that if enough turmoil Exists in the
country, that the incumbent Office holder will be blamed.
I would suggest that those who obviously hate the
police, make sure that the police cease all activities in their home
areas. I believe that should police presence cease in an area, calls
would soon be received at police headquarters, asking for the return of the
men in blue.
In the absence of law enforcement, or where the police are
outnumbered, the news shows us what happens.
I know of not one person who is not horrified by the
actions of the man in blue who killed Mr. Floyd. The outrage is
shared by black, white, native Americans etc. The actions of the
rioters, of all colors, are also being condemned by the same folks who
were outraged by the killing of Mr. Floyd. The rioting only serves to
increase the the discriminatory views of some.
I also find that too many on this list have a negative
attitude about this country. While I have harped about the damage the
drug problem is inflecting on our country, I am still of the opinion
that the vast majority of our citizens are honorable, hard working,
and honest citizens. I have no plans to move to another country. I
wish for calm days ahead and that we let the system of justice deal
with the policemen who were involved with this horrible event.
Yours Truly,
Clifford Wilson
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