Good Thursday Morning All.
It appears that this thread has tangled both the ACB chat list and the
Blind Democracy list. My apologies to those who wish to be left
alone.
Frank, while I think you often(not Always)make good sense, I do
disagree with your final observation, when you wrote, "...when it
comes to justice for criminal cops, the system fails." I would
suggest that the system, with only a few exceptions, does not fail.
It does exactly what it is in place to do, provide protection that
enables the police to do what they believe to be needed, in order to
maintain "the peace". What I protest is that the Laws that govern us,
are not applied equally. For example, just to go to the ridiculous, I
have never seen three police officers holding down a Slum Lord who
just evicted a single mother and her children.
I've always(there's that problem word, Clifford)known that America's
Law and Order were in place to protect our mostly White, Male
Oligarchy.
Only once have I ever tried to obtain "justice" through our Courts.
After laying out close to $6,000 in preparation costs, we were
informed that going before a jury would cost more than our piggy bank
contained. And our odds of winning were very slim. If we won, not
only would our pasture be saved, and our septic system preserved, but
court costs would be handled by the loser. But if we lost, the entire
affair would have exceeded $15,000 to 20,000. We chose to absorb the
$6,000 and let the beaver pond engulf our pasture and threaten our
septic system. But fortunately, in our case, a much more fundamental
System stepped in and saved us. Mother Nature! One fine night Mother
Nature burst the beaver dam and sent all the water down through our
neighbor's property. The beavers finally gave up trying to rebuild,
and moved off our creek.
But now that I've ranted, and , as Always, feel better, my point is
that the Law is not set in place to defend the poor, or even the
working/middle classes. It is an expensive process, and is designed
to protect the rights and properties of our First Class Citizens, and
even at its best, can take years of expensive legal finagling.
But even so, the Law is not Always the winner. That is due to the
fact that the Law is designed by, and administered by a weak
link...Humans.
Finally, I do not consider myself to be anti American. I am a deeply
concerned Citizen, doing what I can do to bring about reforms that
will benefit All Americans. And hopefully help us to really drain
this stinking swamp and save democracy.
Carl Jarvis
On 6/4/20, Frank Ventura <frank.ventura@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi Cliff, I read your statement about waiting for the judicial process to
run its course. I am slightly younger than you but still consider myself an
old-timer. One of the reasons you are seeing so much anger that for those of
us who have lived our entire lives in urban environments we have seen that
very same justice system fail us time and time again when it comes to
prosecuting crimes committed by cops. In most cases the blue wall of silence
prevents all but the most publicized cases from being investigated. Internal
affairs are put under pressure to look the other way. The bigger the
department the bigger the pressure. In the small minority of cases that go
forward if there is no media attention there is no prosecution. When my
grandfather was killed in the Bronx my mother eventually received a letter
that the cop's action were unjustified and that the complaint review board
found it was homicide. Even with that in hand the district attorney refused
to bring criminal charges. That 8 by 11 piece of paper in the cop's file was
the extent of the discipline. He retired on a full disability pension. Now
lets look at that even smaller, miniscule, amount of crimes serious
committed by cops that actually are prosecuted. City cops usually elect to
waive the jury and get tried by a judge. The thinking is that it is easier
to intimidate one person than a whole jury, and they are right. Further to
that point the Fraternal order of Police and Police benevolent associations
are very good at reminding prosecutors and judges just how much they need
cops to do their jobs and that is why they should "do the right thing" when
it comes to trying cops. One of the tricks that they like to do is at the
very last minute before the trial the judge agrees to move the trial out of
the city to a court far out into the suburbs. Usually that is enough to keep
the witnesses from testifying. Poor city folks have little or no chance of
making it 40 or 50 miles out of the city to a court they aren't ever told
where it is. Worse still for some witnesses that do make it through the maze
of witness intimidation, sadly and scary is that they simply disappear just
prior to the hearings, never to be heard from again. If you think this
sounds like an old time radio drama then think again. In a city of more than
9 million people it is not to hard to make a few individuals just plain
disappear. And, yes I know of folks who have gone missing. Your loved one is
set to testify at a hearing against a cop and she suddenly disappears. What
are you going to do? Call the cops, seriously? Now lets look at the few very
rare cases where prosecutors actually do their jobs, witnesses aren't
intimidated, and evidence isn't "mishandled". Often, even with all of those
things in place, the judges simply ignore all of that and let the cop off
the hook. Even TV's "Judge Judy" has a connection to a case where that
happened. If you research doesn't find what the connection is, let me know
and I'll tell you. Now in the particular case of George Floyd some folks are
parallels to the murder of Eric Gardner. Although there is validity in that,
old timers like myself can remember even farther back, to a similar case in
the Bronx. A teenager was playing football with a buddy. A cop was sleeping
in his patrol car. The noise woke the cops up. That angered him to the point
where he choked to death the kid. The cop got off and actually today is a
paid consultant to many of our nation's police forces. He gets paid to coach
the cops on how to kill and get away with it (link below my name). Nice work
if you can get it eh? The long and short of it is that when it comes to
justice for criminal cops, the system fails.
Frank
https://thechiefleader.com/news/news_of_the_week/livoti-now-a-consultant-rogue-cop-airbrushes-past/article_9746b9bb-83e1-54fc-abad-5cb537e90a14.html
From: acb-chat <acb-chat-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of clifford via
acb-chat
Sent: Wednesday, June 3, 2020 9:51 PM
To: 'General discussion list for ACB members and friends where a wide range
of topics from blindness to politics, issues of the day or whatever comes to
mind are welcome. This is a free form discussion list.'
<acb-chat@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: clifford@xxxxxxx
Subject: [acb-chat] the misuse of, "all" "always" "never" "all of them"
Dear List Members:
I was taught long ago to avoid the use of some words, unless
I am dealing with a law of physics. I am amazed at the posts to this list
which characterize "all cops" or "all blacks" "all rioters are white
agitator's" "all demonstrators are peaceful"
We are seeing the use of the notion that just because one
person, whether or not that person is wearing the police uniform or that
person is throwing a bottle of gasoline with a lit wick means all cops or
all demonstrators are corrupt.
The basis for illegal discrimination rests on the proposition that all of us
are individuals and the actions of one of our number is not a reflection on
all who fall in to that category.
I am wondering whether or not the cop who put his knee on
Mr. Floyd had a past relationship with Mr. Floyd. If it turns out they have
had difficulties in the past, then murder in the first degree should be
charged.
Riots are not the way to try cases, as we need all of the
facts, and not just some information about the last minutes of Mr. Floyd's
life.
There are no doubt some men and women who are not suited for
police work, and those folks should be weeded out by the departments. Here
in Tennessee, there are dedicated officers who's only job is to investigate
complaints against other officers, and I happen to know one of those
officers, and he is dedicated to his work, as it is his thinking that
weeding out the bad cops is important to the success of his agency and in
order to help attain the respect needed in order for police work to have the
support of the public.
When it comes to the luting, burning, and rioting which is
shown on the news each evening, I suggest that anyone engaging in such
conduct should be at risk of having deadly force applied to them, regardless
of the color of their skin or their pedigree. I noticed this evening where
to attorneys were arrested in New York City for throwing fire bombs in to a
police cruiser
With police inside. The mob mentality is a strange animal. Folks will
carry out acts in that atmosphere that they would normally never do.
It seems that many of the political enemies of President
Trump are also stoking the fires of unrest, as witnessed on this list. The
idea seems to be that if enough turmoil
Exists in the country, that the incumbent
Office holder will be blamed.
I would suggest that those who obviously hate the police,
make sure that the police cease all activities in their home areas. I
believe that should police presence cease in an area, calls would soon be
received at police headquarters, asking for the return of the men in blue.
In the absence of law enforcement, or where the police are outnumbered, the
news shows us what happens.
I know of not one person who is not horrified by the actions
of the man in blue who killed Mr. Floyd. The outrage is shared by black,
white, native Americans etc. The actions of the rioters, of all colors, are
also being condemned by the same folks who were outraged by the killing of
Mr. Floyd. The rioting only serves to increase the the discriminatory views
of some.
I also find that too many on this list have a negative
attitude about this country. While I have harped about the damage the drug
problem is inflecting on our country, I am still of the opinion that the
vast majority of our citizens are honorable, hard working, and honest
citizens. I have no plans to move to another country. I wish for calm days
ahead and that we let the system of justice deal with the policemen who were
involved with this horrible event.
Yours Truly,
Clifford Wilson
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