Abby,
The problem is that there are thousands of people on those lists who don't
belong there. Some are there because they have names similar, or the same as
people who are thought to be potential terrorists. Some are there because
they are thought to have had some sort of contact with someone who might or
might not be a terrorist. The procedures for people being put on those
lists are secret. So it seems to me that a much more effective way of
controlling gun violence is to limit the kinds of guns sold and to limit the
purposes for which they're sold, and to have a background check on everyone
who wants to buy a gun.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: Abby Vincent [mailto:aevincent@xxxxxxxxx] ;
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 11:06 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: 'Miriam Vieni'
Subject: RE: [blind-democracy] Re: 10 Outrageous Examples of People Who
Really Didn't Belong on the Feds' Terror Watch List
So, the no fly and terrorist watch lists are flawed. If getting on required
evidence and there were procedures for getting off, then why should those
who belong on the lists be allowed to buy guns? Sure, some dangerous people
could still find a way to come here. We have to try. Actually, I'm more
concerned about the potential mass murderers who are already here Abby .
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Carl Jarvis
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 7:21 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: 10 Outrageous Examples of People Who Really
Didn't Belong on the Feds' Terror Watch List
Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
This is why it's a bad idea to pass legislation banning the sale ofThe terrorist no fly list.
guns to people on the terror watch list or no fly list.
Miriam
Outrageous Examples of People Who Really Didn't Belong on the
guns,"________________________________________10 Outrageous Examples of People Who Really Didn't Belong on the Feds'
Terror Watch List exandra Rosenmann [1] / AlterNet [2] June 16, 2016
In the wake of the Orlando massacre, even some of the biggest
objectors to gun control are opening the door to restrictions.
"I will be meeting with the NRA, who has endorsed me, about not
allowing people on the terrorist watch list, or the no-fly list, to buy
Donaldwhich the US adopted.
Trump tweeted [3] Wednesday, surprising both the left and right.
"For Democrats, however, the move amounts to a strong endorsement of a
system that civil liberties advocates have called a "Kafkaesque
bureaucracy," and which some Democrats have previously criticized for
being secretive, unaccountable, and discriminatory," The Intercept
reported [4] in response to the controversy.
"According to interagency watchlisting guidelines [5] The Intercept
published in 2014, it takes neither "concrete facts" nor "irrefutable
evidence" to add someone's name as a terror suspect. The guidelines
allow the administration to name individuals as representatives of
terrorist groups they have no demonstrable connection to and to put
entire "categories" of people on the no-fly list," said the Intercept.
The easist way to find out if you're on the "no fly list" is, of
course, at the airport. This was also the only way to find out if your
name appeared until [6] just two years ago.
Here are just 10 of the most outrageous entries in the system:
1. US Sen. Ted Kennedy (D-MA)
''Tried to get on a plane back to Washington,'' Mr. Kennedy explained
on the Senate floor in 2004. '''You can't get on the plane.' I went up
to the desk and said, 'I've been getting on this plane, you know, for
42 years. Why can't I get on the plane?'''
"Mr. Kennedy said his situation highlighted the odyssey encountered by
people whose names had mistakenly appeared on terrorist watch lists or
resembled the names of suspected terrorists on such lists. In April,
the American Civil Liberties Union sued the government on behalf of
seven airline passengers who said they had wrongly been placed on
no-fly lists or associated with names on the lists and could not find
a way to clarify their identities," The New York Times reported [7].
2. Bolivian President Evo Morales
The name of the president who has been highly critical of the Obama
Administration was discovered [8] on the terrorist watch list in 2009.
"The capitalist system that Obama represents is not a policy that
embodies the people of the United States, but a policy of the
transnational corporations, especially of those that commercialize
weapons and push for an arms race," Morales told RT America in 2014.
"This kind of intervention that the US government provokes is a
business to them - a business that ends people's lives," Morales added.
3. Nelson Mandela
"Nelson Mandela is being remembered across the world (and political
spectrum) for his heroic, life-long battle against apartheid and
injustice in South Africa. But with all the accolades being thrown
around, it's easy to forget that the U.S., in particular, hasn't
always had such a friendly relationship with Mandela -- and that in
fact, as late as 2008, the Nobel Prize winner and former president was
still on the U.S. terrorism watch list," the Washington Post revealed
[9] in 2013. As it turns out, because Mandela was part of the African
National Congress, the group trying to overthrow the white
apartheid-supporting government, he was placed on South Africa's list,
4 - 6. The James Robinsonstold CNN.
A former US Attorney General, an airline pilot and a third grader all
share the name "James Robinson" and are all on the terrorist watch list.
7. CNN Reporter Drew Griffin
Coinidentally, Griffin was also placed on the watch list "shortly
after I began a series of investigative reports critical of the TSA," he
8. 6-Year-Old Alyssa Thomasattacks,"
"We were puzzled," Dr. Santosh Thomas, Alyssa's father told CNN in 2011.
The
family found out at the Continental check-in after having booked a
flight from Cleveland to Minneapolis. "They said, 'She's on a list,' I
said, 'Well, what does she have to do to get off that list?"
9. 8-Year-Old Mikey Hicks
"My mom thinks that some terrorist has the same name as me and my dad,"
Hicks told CBS. According to his mother, the family has had to battle
with this unfortunate discrepency nearly Mikey's entire life.
10. Stanford Ph.D Student Rahinah Ibrahim In January 2014, a federal
judge ruled [10] that, "the Department of Homeland Security made a
"mistake" when it put a former Stanford University PhD student on the
government's no-fly terrorist watch list and must give her an
opportunity to apply for reentry to the United States."
That was nearly a decade after Ibrahim discovered she was even on the
list
-
in 2005. Ibrahim's case was "the first and only successful challenge
to the terrorist watch-listing program, which arose following the 9/11
Ars Technica confirmed [11].guns,"
Alexandra Rosenmann is an AlterNet associate editor. Follow her
@alexpreditor [12].
Share on Facebook Share
Share on Twitter Tweet
Report typos and corrections to 'corrections@xxxxxxxxxxxx'. [13]
[14]
________________________________________
Source URL:
http://www.alternet.org/investigations/10-outrageous-incidences-people
-found
-terrorist-watch-list
Links:
[1] http://www.alternet.org/authors/alexandra-rosenmann
[2] http://alternet.org
[3] https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/743078235408195584
[4]
https://theintercept.com/2016/06/15/democrats-embrace-secretive-flawed
-terro r-watchlist-in-fight-against-gun-violence/
[5] https://theintercept.com/2014/07/23/blacklisted/
[6]
https://www.aclu.org/blog/victory-no-fly-list-process-ruled-unconstitu
tional
[7]
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/20/us/senator-terrorist-a-watch-list-st
ops-ke
nnedy-at-airport.html?_r=0
[8] https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2009/03/watc-m12.html
[9]
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2013/12/07/why-nelson-m
andela -was-on-a-terrorism-watch-list-in-2008/
[10]
http://articles.latimes.com/2014/jan/19/local/la-me-watch-list-2014012
0
[11]
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/03/after-seven-years-exactly-o
ne-per
son-gets-off-the-govt-no-fly-list/
[12] http://twitter.com/alexpreditor
[13] mailto:corrections@xxxxxxxxxxxx?Subject=Typo on 10 Outrageous ;
Examples of People Who Really Didn't Belong on the Feds'
Terror Watch List [14] http://www.alternet.org/ [15] ;
http://www.alternet.org/%2Bnew_src%2B
Published on Alternet (http://www.alternet.org) Home > 10 Outrageous
Examples of People Who Really Didn't Belong on the Feds' Terror Watch
List
10 Outrageous Examples of People Who Really Didn't Belong on the Feds'
Terror Watch List
By Alexandra Rosenmann [1] / AlterNet [2] June 16, 2016 AddThis
Sharing ButtonsShare to FacebookShare to TwitterShare to
Google+More
AddThis Share optionsShare to Email
In the wake of the Orlando massacre, even some of the biggest
objectors to gun control are opening the door to restrictions.
"I will be meeting with the NRA, who has endorsed me, about not
allowing people on the terrorist watch list, or the no-fly list, to buy
Donaldwhich the US adopted.
Trump tweeted [3] Wednesday, surprising both the left and right.
"For Democrats, however, the move amounts to a strong endorsement of a
system that civil liberties advocates have called a "Kafkaesque
bureaucracy," and which some Democrats have previously criticized for
being secretive, unaccountable, and discriminatory," The Intercept
reported [4] in response to the controversy.
"According to interagency watchlisting guidelines [5] The Intercept
published in 2014, it takes neither "concrete facts" nor "irrefutable
evidence" to add someone's name as a terror suspect. The guidelines
allow the administration to name individuals as representatives of
terrorist groups they have no demonstrable connection to and to put
entire "categories" of people on the no-fly list," said the Intercept.
The easist way to find out if you're on the "no fly list" is, of
course, at the airport. This was also the only way to find out if your
name appeared until [6] just two years ago.
Here are just 10 of the most outrageous entries in the system:
1. US Sen. Ted Kennedy (D-MA)
''Tried to get on a plane back to Washington,'' Mr. Kennedy explained
on the Senate floor in 2004. '''You can't get on the plane.' I went up
to the desk and said, 'I've been getting on this plane, you know, for
42 years. Why can't I get on the plane?'''
"Mr. Kennedy said his situation highlighted the odyssey encountered by
people whose names had mistakenly appeared on terrorist watch lists or
resembled the names of suspected terrorists on such lists. In April,
the American Civil Liberties Union sued the government on behalf of
seven airline passengers who said they had wrongly been placed on
no-fly lists or associated with names on the lists and could not find
a way to clarify their identities," The New York Times reported [7].
2. Bolivian President Evo Morales
The name of the president who has been highly critical of the Obama
Administration was discovered [8] on the terrorist watch list in 2009.
"The capitalist system that Obama represents is not a policy that
embodies the people of the United States, but a policy of the
transnational corporations, especially of those that commercialize
weapons and push for an arms race," Morales told RT America in 2014.
"This kind of intervention that the US government provokes is a
business to them - a business that ends people's lives," Morales added.
3. Nelson Mandela
"Nelson Mandela is being remembered across the world (and political
spectrum) for his heroic, life-long battle against apartheid and
injustice in South Africa. But with all the accolades being thrown
around, it's easy to forget that the U.S., in particular, hasn't
always had such a friendly relationship with Mandela -- and that in
fact, as late as 2008, the Nobel Prize winner and former president was
still on the U.S. terrorism watch list," the Washington Post revealed
[9] in 2013. As it turns out, because Mandela was part of the African
National Congress, the group trying to overthrow the white
apartheid-supporting government, he was placed on South Africa's list,
4 - 6. The James Robinsonstold CNN.
A former US Attorney General, an airline pilot and a third grader all
share the name "James Robinson" and are all on the terrorist watch list.
7. CNN Reporter Drew Griffin
Coinidentally, Griffin was also placed on the watch list "shortly
after I began a series of investigative reports critical of the TSA," he
8. 6-Year-Old Alyssa Thomasattacks,"
"We were puzzled," Dr. Santosh Thomas, Alyssa's father told CNN in 2011.
The
family found out at the Continental check-in after having booked a
flight from Cleveland to Minneapolis. "They said, 'She's on a list,' I
said, 'Well, what does she have to do to get off that list?"
9. 8-Year-Old Mikey Hicks
"My mom thinks that some terrorist has the same name as me and my dad,"
Hicks told CBS. According to his mother, the family has had to battle
with this unfortunate discrepency nearly Mikey's entire life.
10. Stanford Ph.D Student Rahinah Ibrahim In January 2014, a federal
judge ruled [10] that, "the Department of Homeland Security made a
"mistake" when it put a former Stanford University PhD student on the
government's no-fly terrorist watch list and must give her an
opportunity to apply for reentry to the United States."
That was nearly a decade after Ibrahim discovered she was even on the
list
-
in 2005. Ibrahim's case was "the first and only successful challenge
to the terrorist watch-listing program, which arose following the 9/11
Ars Technica confirmed [11].
Alexandra Rosenmann is an AlterNet associate editor. Follow her
@alexpreditor [12].
Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.
Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.
Report typos and corrections to 'corrections@xxxxxxxxxxxx'. [13]
Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.[14]
Source URL:
http://www.alternet.org/investigations/10-outrageous-incidences-people
-found
-terrorist-watch-list
Links:
[1] http://www.alternet.org/authors/alexandra-rosenmann
[2] http://alternet.org
[3] https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/743078235408195584
[4]
https://theintercept.com/2016/06/15/democrats-embrace-secretive-flawed
-terro r-watchlist-in-fight-against-gun-violence/
[5] https://theintercept.com/2014/07/23/blacklisted/
[6]
https://www.aclu.org/blog/victory-no-fly-list-process-ruled-unconstitu
tional
[7]
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/20/us/senator-terrorist-a-watch-list-st
ops-ke
nnedy-at-airport.html?_r=0
[8] https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2009/03/watc-m12.html
[9]
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2013/12/07/why-nelson-m
andela -was-on-a-terrorism-watch-list-in-2008/
[10]
http://articles.latimes.com/2014/jan/19/local/la-me-watch-list-2014012
0
[11]
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/03/after-seven-years-exactly-o
ne-per
son-gets-off-the-govt-no-fly-list/
[12] http://twitter.com/alexpreditor
[13] mailto:corrections@xxxxxxxxxxxx?Subject=Typo on 10 Outrageous ;
Examples of People Who Really Didn't Belong on the Feds'
Terror Watch List [14] http://www.alternet.org/ [15] ;
http://www.alternet.org/%2Bnew_src%2B
