Richard, I believe that the Game Help rules are fine just the way they stand. What is so difficult to understand about " no computers or electronic games"? I am not in favor of making it acceptable to show up for a marathon with a bicycle! Alvin ----- Original Message ----- From: R Dinger To: chess Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 2:37 PM Subject: [blind-chess] Revising Help Rules Hi All, Because of the correspondence chess tradition of using print reference materials, this could be a difficult rule change. For many years correspondence chess players used books and their own past games as references when playing. I think this was used mostly to get the first few moves of a specific opening correct, but studying your own previous games could sometimes help avoid common pitfalls as well. The whole notion of references was not much of an issue, though, because manually searching through piles of written material took too much time. Now with the introduction of personal computers and the availability of low cost databases of literally millions of games, the problem landscape has changed dramatically. As Johannes correctly points out, the better researcher has an advantage over his opponent no matter the opponent's chess skill. Some chess game databases allow you to just enter your FEN position and the software tells you what the best next move is based on the millions of master level games in the database. You don't even need to enter the moves, just the current position. And someone told me recently that some databases don't even need the exact FEN they will find the closest ones. But is that really playing chess or just running some software. To me it seems a little like entering a marathon race and showing up to compete on a bicycle. So where do we on the blind chess list want to draw the line? Clearly using a chess engine or discussing your game with the local chess Grand Master that is giving you chess lessons is out. And maybe looking up your first few moves in the ECO in order to find the name and number of the opening could probably be allowed. But what about the rest of it? Nothing is really enforceable, though, and we must rely on the honor system. I will make the rule whatever appears to be the general consensus of the blind chess members. So far I think the idea of absolutely no help seems to be winning. Some more ideas you might consider: * Keeping the current rules. * Limit to written articles and books only, like ECo or articles on a specific opening. * You must inform your opponent of any reference you use and furnish your opponent a copy. * No game databases or any published historical games. * No chess software at all, like engines or databases like chess base. * No opening advisor sites or automated opening software. * Absolutely nothing but your own memory. Any more ideas or additional comments? Richard