[bksvol-discuss] Re: the ellipsis
- From: Cindy Rosenthal <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 14:18:29 -0800 (PST)
Thanks, Jill, for the info. I won't change my habits,
then. smile
Cindy
--- Jill O'Connell <jillocon@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Cindy, I don't know why my message didn't copy
> correctly but it didn't. You
> do need to delete the spaces to create a braille
> elipsis. A slight
> correction, Kurzweil actually says period, period,
> period whether there are
> spaces or not. Jill
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cindy Rosenthal" <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 10:39 PM
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] the ellipsis
>
>
> > Does that mean, then, that it isn't necessary to
> > delete the spaces between? In fact it would be
> better
> > to leave them? Now I am confused. I thought it was
> for
> > braille readers that we were eliminating the
> spaces.
> > smile
> >
> > Cindy
> >
> > --- Jill O'Connell <jillocon@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> >> Cindy, My screen reader presently says dot, dot,
> dot
> >> regardless of whether
> >> there are spaces or not. It's only by using my
> >> braille display that I know
> >> whether or not there are spaces. If there aren't,
> I
> >> see periods; if there
> >> are I see an elipsis.
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Cindy Rosenthal" <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
> >> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 2:09 AM
> >> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: What several
> >> gramatical publications say about
> >> the ellipsis.
> >>
> >>
> >> > After reading all the posts I decided to read
> what
> >> > Mayrie wrote, which I had skipped because I
> >> understood
> >> > ellipses.
> >> >
> >> > Basically, the irst sources she quotes have to
> do
> >> with
> >> > the uses of ellipses rather than how they are
> >> written.
> >> > I have never seen them in a print book without
> >> spaces
> >> > between them, except, of course, that when they
> >> follow
> >> > the end of a sentence the period at the end of
> the
> >> > sentence is a period and so no space would
> precede
> >> it.
> >> > Bringhurst's book is written for
> >> typographer--people
> >> > who set type for printing books and newspapers,
> >> though
> >> > less and less of that is being done these days.
> >> She
> >> > doesn't note, nor did I look up, when that was
> >> > written.
> >> >
> >> > But for purposes of our Braille readers, it
> seems
> >> that
> >> > no spaces between the dots is preferable, and
> so
> >> I've
> >> > been deleting them when validating, i.e., now
> that
> >> the
> >> > new site is coming online, proofreading. I
> don't
> >> know
> >> > what daisy readers hear--do the voices say
> >> ellipses or
> >> > do they say dot space dot space dot space. If
> the
> >> > latter, I suppose it would be preferable to her
> >> dot
> >> > dot dot.smile (Am I write that Daisy is audio?)
> >> >
> >> > Cindy
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --- Julia <julia.kulak@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Oh, ok, that's good to know.
> >> >> Thanks. Write to me off list when you get a
> >> chance.
> >> >> Julia
> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> From: "Mayrie ReNae" <mayrierenae@xxxxxxxxx>
> >> >> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >> Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 6:35 PM
> >> >> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: What several
> >> >> gramatical publications say about
> >> >> the ellipsis.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> > Hi Julia,
> >> >> >
> >> >> > The upshot is that depending upon who you
> ask,
> >> the
> >> >> ellipsis is
> >> >> > supposed to be represented either with or
> >> without
> >> >> spaces separating the
> >> >> > dots. So, whichever way people choose to do
> >> it,
> >> >> they're correct as far as
> >> >> > visual representation is concerned. At
> least,
> >> >> that's what I understood.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Mayrie
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> >> > From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> > [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On
> >> >> Behalf Of Julia
> >> >> > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 3:22 PM
> >> >> > To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: What several
> >> >> gramatical publications say
> >> >> > about
> >> >> > the ellipsis.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Wow, this is very complicated, and if I may
> say
> >> >> so, quite technical and
> >> >> > confusing. Maybe if I knew unicode it would
> >> make
> >> >> more sense.
> >> >> > Julia
> >> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> > From: <mayrierenae@xxxxxxxxx>
> >> >> > To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >> > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 4:30 PM
> >> >> > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] What several
> >> gramatical
> >> >> publications say about
> >> >> > the
> >> >> >
> >> >> > ellipsis.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> Hi Guys,
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Oh, boy! The ellipsis gets complicated if
> you
> >> >> look into it. Here
> >> >> >> are some statements that I found about its
> >> usage
> >> >> and how it can and
> >> >> >> should
> >> >> >> be typed.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Have fun!
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> See below.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Mayrie
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> In English
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> The style and use varies in the English
> >> language.
> >> >> >> The Chicago Manual of Style
> >> >> >> suggests the use of an ellipsis for any
> >> omitted
> >> >> word, phrase, line, or
> >> >> >> paragraph from within a quoted passage.
> There
> >> are
> >> >> two commonly used
> >> >> >> methods
> >> >> >> of using
> >> >> >> ellipses: one uses three dots for any
> >> omission,
> >> >> while the second makes a
> >> >> >> distinction between omissions within a
> >> sentence
> >> >> (using three dots: .?.?.)
> >> >> >> and
> >> >> >> omissions between sentences (using a period
> >> and a
> >> >> space followed by three
> >> >> >> dots: . .?.?.). An ellipsis at the end of a
> >> >> sentence with no sentence
> >> >> >> following
> >> >> >> should be followed by a period (for a total
> of
> >> >> four dots). The
> >> >> >> Modern Language Association
> >> >> >> (MLA) however, used to indicate that an
> >> ellipsis
> >> >> must include spaces
> >> >> >> before
> >> >> >> and after each dot in all uses. If an
> ellipsis
> >> is
> >> >> meant to represent an
> >> >> >> omission,
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> square brackets
> >> >> >> must surround the ellipsis to make it clear
> >> that
> >> >> there was no pause in
> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> original quote: [ .?.?. ]. Currently, the
> MLA
> >> has
> >> >> removed the requirement
> >> >> >> of
> >> >> >> brackets in their style handbooks. However,
> >> the
> >> >> use of brackets is still
> >> >> >> correct as it clears confusion.
> >> >> >> [1]
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> According to Robert Bringhurst's
> >> >> >> Elements of Typographic Style
> >> >> >> , the details of typesetting ellipses
> depend
> >> on
> >> >> the character and size of
> >> >> >> the font being set and the typographer's
> >> >> preference. Bringhurst writes
> >> >> >> that
> >> >> >> a
> >> >> >> full space between each dot is "another
> >> Victorian
> >> >> eccentricity. In most
> >> >> >> contexts, the Chicago ellipsis is much too
> >> wide"
> >> >> ? he recommends using
> >> >> >> flush
> >> >> >> dots,
> >> >> >> or
> >> >> >> thin-spaced
> >> >> >> dots (up to one-fifth of an
> >> >> >> em
> >> >> >> ), or the prefabricated ellipsis character
> (
> >> >> >> Unicode
> >> >> >> U+2026,
> >> >> >> Latin entity
> >> >> >> …). Bringhurst suggests that
> normally
> >> an
> >> >> ellipsis should be spaced
> >> >> >> fore-and-aft to separate it from the text,
> but
> >> >> when it combines with
> >> >> >> other
> >> >> >> punctuation,
> >> >> >> the leading space disappears and the other
> >> >> punctuation follows. He
> >> >> >> provides
> >> >> >> the following examples:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> i?? j
> >> >> >> k?.
> >> >> >> l?, l
> >> >> >> l,?? l
> >> >> >> m??
> >> >> >> n?..!
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> In legal writing in the United States, Rule
> >> 5.3
> >> >> in the
> >> >> >> Bluebook
> >> >> >> citation guide governs the use of ellipses
> and
> >> >> requires a space before
> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> first dot and between the two subsequent
> dots.
> >> If
> >> >> an ellipsis ends the
> >> >> >> sentence,
> >> >> >> then there are three dots, each separated
> by a
> >> >> space, followed by the
> >> >> >> final
> >> >> >> punctuation.
> >> >> >>
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> No virus found in this incoming message.
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> >> Version: 8.0.229 / Virus Database: 270.10.5/1885
> -
> >> Release Date: 01/09/09
> >> 19:59:00
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>
>
>
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> 18:01:00
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