As I have said, the Bookshare braille translator expects there to be no spaces. What Jill's braille display does is irrelevant to what Bookshare books look like when they are rendered into braille. So deleting the spaces creates the correct appearance of the ellipsis in Bookshare books, while including them does not.
Evan----- Original Message ----- From: "Cindy Rosenthal" <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 1:39 AM Subject: [bksvol-discuss] the ellipsis
Does that mean, then, that it isn't necessary to delete the spaces between? In fact it would be better to leave them? Now I am confused. I thought it was for braille readers that we were eliminating the spaces. smile Cindy --- Jill O'Connell <jillocon@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:Cindy, My screen reader presently says dot, dot, dot regardless of whether there are spaces or not. It's only by using my braille display that I know whether or not there are spaces. If there aren't, I see periods; if there are I see an elipsis.----- Original Message ----- From: "Cindy Rosenthal" <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 2:09 AM Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: What several gramatical publications say about the ellipsis. > After reading all the posts I decided to read what > Mayrie wrote, which I had skipped because I understood > ellipses. > > Basically, the irst sources she quotes have to do with > the uses of ellipses rather than how they are written. > I have never seen them in a print book without spaces > between them, except, of course, that when they follow > the end of a sentence the period at the end of the > sentence is a period and so no space would precede it. > Bringhurst's book is written for typographer--people > who set type for printing books and newspapers, though > less and less of that is being done these days. She > doesn't note, nor did I look up, when that was > written. > > But for purposes of our Braille readers, it seems that > no spaces between the dots is preferable, and so I've > been deleting them when validating, i.e., now that the > new site is coming online, proofreading. I don't know > what daisy readers hear--do the voices say ellipses or > do they say dot space dot space dot space. If the > latter, I suppose it would be preferable to her dot > dot dot.smile (Am I write that Daisy is audio?) > > Cindy > > > --- Julia <julia.kulak@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > >> Oh, ok, that's good to know. >> Thanks. Write to me off list when you get a chance. >> Julia>> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mayrie ReNae" <mayrierenae@xxxxxxxxx>>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >> Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 6:35 PM >> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: What several >> gramatical publications say about >> the ellipsis. >> >> >> > Hi Julia, >> > >> > The upshot is that depending upon who you ask, the >> ellipsis is >> > supposed to be represented either with or without >> spaces separating the >> > dots. So, whichever way people choose to do it, >> they're correct as far as >> > visual representation is concerned. At least, >> that's what I understood. >> > >> > Mayrie >> > >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> > [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On >> Behalf Of Julia >> > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 3:22 PM >> > To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: What several >> gramatical publications say >> > about >> > the ellipsis. >> > >> > Wow, this is very complicated, and if I may say >> so, quite technical and >> > confusing. Maybe if I knew unicode it would make >> more sense. >> > Julia>> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: <mayrierenae@xxxxxxxxx>>> > To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >> > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 4:30 PM >> > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] What several gramatical >> publications say about >> > the >> > >> > ellipsis. >> > >> > >> >> Hi Guys, >> >> >> >> Oh, boy! The ellipsis gets complicated if you >> look into it. Here >> >> are some statements that I found about its usage >> and how it can and >> >> should >> >> be typed. >> >> >> >> Have fun! >> >> >> >> See below. >> >> >> >> Mayrie >> >> >> >> In English >> >> >> >> The style and use varies in the English language. >> >> The Chicago Manual of Style >> >> suggests the use of an ellipsis for any omitted >> word, phrase, line, or >> >> paragraph from within a quoted passage. There are >> two commonly used >> >> methods >> >> of using >> >> ellipses: one uses three dots for any omission, >> while the second makes a >> >> distinction between omissions within a sentence >> (using three dots: .?.?.) >> >> and >> >> omissions between sentences (using a period and a >> space followed by three >> >> dots: . .?.?.). An ellipsis at the end of a >> sentence with no sentence >> >> following >> >> should be followed by a period (for a total of >> four dots). The >> >> Modern Language Association >> >> (MLA) however, used to indicate that an ellipsis >> must include spaces >> >> before >> >> and after each dot in all uses. If an ellipsis is >> meant to represent an >> >> omission, >> >> >> >> square brackets >> >> must surround the ellipsis to make it clear that >> there was no pause in >> >> the >> >> original quote: [ .?.?. ]. Currently, the MLA has >> removed the requirement >> >> of >> >> brackets in their style handbooks. However, the >> use of brackets is still >> >> correct as it clears confusion. >> >> [1] >> >> >> >> According to Robert Bringhurst's >> >> Elements of Typographic Style >> >> , the details of typesetting ellipses depend on >> the character and size of >> >> the font being set and the typographer's >> preference. Bringhurst writes >> >> that >> >> a >> >> full space between each dot is "another Victorian >> eccentricity. In most >> >> contexts, the Chicago ellipsis is much too wide" >> ? he recommends using >> >> flush >> >> dots, >> >> or >> >> thin-spaced >> >> dots (up to one-fifth of an >> >> em >> >> ), or the prefabricated ellipsis character ( >> >> Unicode >> >> U+2026, >> >> Latin entity >> >> …). Bringhurst suggests that normally an >> ellipsis should be spaced >> >> fore-and-aft to separate it from the text, but >> when it combines with >> >> other >> >> punctuation, >> >> the leading space disappears and the other >> punctuation follows. He >> >> provides >> >> the following examples: >> >> >> >> i?? j >> >> k?. >> >> l?, l >> >> l,?? l >> >> m?? >> >> n?..! >> >> >> >> In legal writing in the United States, Rule 5.3 >> in the >> >> Bluebook >> >> citation guide governs the use of ellipses and >> requires a space before >> >> the >> >> first dot and between the two subsequent dots. If >> an ellipsis ends the >> >> sentence, >> >> then there are three dots, each separated by a >> space, followed by the >> >> final >> >> punctuation. >> >> >> >> To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email >> to >> >> bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> >> put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the >> subject line. To get a list >> >> of available commands, put the word 'help' by >> itself in the subject line. >> >> >> >> >> > >> > To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email >> to >> > bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> > put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the >> subject line. To get a list >> > of >> > available commands, put the word 'help' by itself >> in the subject line. >> > >> > To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email >> to >> > bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> > put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the >> subject line. To get a list >> > of available commands, put the word 'help' by >> itself in the subject line. >> > >> >> To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to >> bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject >> line. To get a list of available commands, put the >> word 'help' by itself in the subject line. >> >> > > > WISH LIST (CALLED REQUESTED ADDITIONS TO THE BOOKSHARE COLLECTION)IS > AVAILABLE AT >http://www.friendsofbookshare.org/wish_list/wish_list.htm> www.lljfm.net/bookshare/home.htm > > A LIST OF BOOKS CURRENTLY BEING SCANNED IS AVAILABLE AT > http://www.friendsofbookshare.org/ > www.lljfm.net/bookshare/home.htm > > > > > To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to > bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a list > of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject line. >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.229 / Virus Database: 270.10.5/1885 - Release Date: 01/09/09 19:59:00 To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a list of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject line.WISH LIST (CALLED REQUESTED ADDITIONS TO THE BOOKSHARE COLLECTION)IS AVAILABLE AThttp://www.friendsofbookshare.org/wish_list/wish_list.htm www.lljfm.net/bookshare/home.htm A LIST OF BOOKS CURRENTLY BEING SCANNED IS AVAILABLE AT http://www.friendsofbookshare.org/ www.lljfm.net/bookshare/home.htm To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxput the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. 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