Does that mean, then, that it isn't necessary to delete the spaces between? In fact it would be better to leave them? Now I am confused. I thought it was for braille readers that we were eliminating the spaces. smile Cindy --- Jill O'Connell <jillocon@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > Cindy, My screen reader presently says dot, dot, dot > regardless of whether > there are spaces or not. It's only by using my > braille display that I know > whether or not there are spaces. If there aren't, I > see periods; if there > are I see an elipsis. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Cindy Rosenthal" <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx> > To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 2:09 AM > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: What several > gramatical publications say about > the ellipsis. > > > > After reading all the posts I decided to read what > > Mayrie wrote, which I had skipped because I > understood > > ellipses. > > > > Basically, the irst sources she quotes have to do > with > > the uses of ellipses rather than how they are > written. > > I have never seen them in a print book without > spaces > > between them, except, of course, that when they > follow > > the end of a sentence the period at the end of the > > sentence is a period and so no space would precede > it. > > Bringhurst's book is written for > typographer--people > > who set type for printing books and newspapers, > though > > less and less of that is being done these days. > She > > doesn't note, nor did I look up, when that was > > written. > > > > But for purposes of our Braille readers, it seems > that > > no spaces between the dots is preferable, and so > I've > > been deleting them when validating, i.e., now that > the > > new site is coming online, proofreading. I don't > know > > what daisy readers hear--do the voices say > ellipses or > > do they say dot space dot space dot space. If the > > latter, I suppose it would be preferable to her > dot > > dot dot.smile (Am I write that Daisy is audio?) > > > > Cindy > > > > > > --- Julia <julia.kulak@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > >> Oh, ok, that's good to know. > >> Thanks. Write to me off list when you get a > chance. > >> Julia > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Mayrie ReNae" <mayrierenae@xxxxxxxxx> > >> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > >> Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 6:35 PM > >> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: What several > >> gramatical publications say about > >> the ellipsis. > >> > >> > >> > Hi Julia, > >> > > >> > The upshot is that depending upon who you ask, > the > >> ellipsis is > >> > supposed to be represented either with or > without > >> spaces separating the > >> > dots. So, whichever way people choose to do > it, > >> they're correct as far as > >> > visual representation is concerned. At least, > >> that's what I understood. > >> > > >> > Mayrie > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -----Original Message----- > >> > From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > >> > [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On > >> Behalf Of Julia > >> > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 3:22 PM > >> > To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > >> > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: What several > >> gramatical publications say > >> > about > >> > the ellipsis. > >> > > >> > Wow, this is very complicated, and if I may say > >> so, quite technical and > >> > confusing. Maybe if I knew unicode it would > make > >> more sense. > >> > Julia > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: <mayrierenae@xxxxxxxxx> > >> > To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > >> > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 4:30 PM > >> > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] What several > gramatical > >> publications say about > >> > the > >> > > >> > ellipsis. > >> > > >> > > >> >> Hi Guys, > >> >> > >> >> Oh, boy! The ellipsis gets complicated if you > >> look into it. Here > >> >> are some statements that I found about its > usage > >> and how it can and > >> >> should > >> >> be typed. > >> >> > >> >> Have fun! > >> >> > >> >> See below. > >> >> > >> >> Mayrie > >> >> > >> >> In English > >> >> > >> >> The style and use varies in the English > language. > >> >> The Chicago Manual of Style > >> >> suggests the use of an ellipsis for any > omitted > >> word, phrase, line, or > >> >> paragraph from within a quoted passage. There > are > >> two commonly used > >> >> methods > >> >> of using > >> >> ellipses: one uses three dots for any > omission, > >> while the second makes a > >> >> distinction between omissions within a > sentence > >> (using three dots: .?.?.) > >> >> and > >> >> omissions between sentences (using a period > and a > >> space followed by three > >> >> dots: . .?.?.). An ellipsis at the end of a > >> sentence with no sentence > >> >> following > >> >> should be followed by a period (for a total of > >> four dots). The > >> >> Modern Language Association > >> >> (MLA) however, used to indicate that an > ellipsis > >> must include spaces > >> >> before > >> >> and after each dot in all uses. If an ellipsis > is > >> meant to represent an > >> >> omission, > >> >> > >> >> square brackets > >> >> must surround the ellipsis to make it clear > that > >> there was no pause in > >> >> the > >> >> original quote: [ .?.?. ]. Currently, the MLA > has > >> removed the requirement > >> >> of > >> >> brackets in their style handbooks. However, > the > >> use of brackets is still > >> >> correct as it clears confusion. > >> >> [1] > >> >> > >> >> According to Robert Bringhurst's > >> >> Elements of Typographic Style > >> >> , the details of typesetting ellipses depend > on > >> the character and size of > >> >> the font being set and the typographer's > >> preference. Bringhurst writes > >> >> that > >> >> a > >> >> full space between each dot is "another > Victorian > >> eccentricity. In most > >> >> contexts, the Chicago ellipsis is much too > wide" > >> ? he recommends using > >> >> flush > >> >> dots, > >> >> or > >> >> thin-spaced > >> >> dots (up to one-fifth of an > >> >> em > >> >> ), or the prefabricated ellipsis character ( > >> >> Unicode > >> >> U+2026, > >> >> Latin entity > >> >> …). Bringhurst suggests that normally > an > >> ellipsis should be spaced > >> >> fore-and-aft to separate it from the text, but > >> when it combines with > >> >> other > >> >> punctuation, > >> >> the leading space disappears and the other > >> punctuation follows. He > >> >> provides > >> >> the following examples: > >> >> > >> >> i?? j > >> >> k?. > >> >> l?, l > >> >> l,?? l > >> >> m?? > >> >> n?..! > >> >> > >> >> In legal writing in the United States, Rule > 5.3 > >> in the > >> >> Bluebook > >> >> citation guide governs the use of ellipses and > >> requires a space before > >> >> the > >> >> first dot and between the two subsequent dots. > If > >> an ellipsis ends the > >> >> sentence, > >> >> then there are three dots, each separated by a > >> space, followed by the > >> >> final > >> >> punctuation. > >> >> > >> >> To unsubscribe from this list send a blank > Email > >> to > >> >> bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > >> >> put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the > >> subject line. 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