[bksvol-discuss] the ellipsis

  • From: Cindy Rosenthal <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 22:39:42 -0800 (PST)

Does that mean, then, that it isn't necessary to
delete the spaces between? In fact it would be better
to leave them? Now I am confused. I thought it was for
braille readers that we were eliminating the spaces.
smile

Cindy

--- Jill O'Connell <jillocon@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Cindy, My screen reader presently says dot, dot, dot
> regardless of whether 
> there are spaces or not. It's only by using my
> braille display that I know 
> whether or not there are spaces. If there aren't, I
> see periods; if there 
> are I see an elipsis.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Cindy Rosenthal" <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 2:09 AM
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: What several
> gramatical publications say about 
> the ellipsis.
> 
> 
> > After reading all the posts I decided to read what
> > Mayrie wrote, which I had skipped because I
> understood
> > ellipses.
> >
> > Basically, the irst sources she quotes have to do
> with
> > the uses of ellipses rather than how they are
> written.
> > I have never seen them in a print book without
> spaces
> > between them, except, of course, that when they
> follow
> > the end of a sentence the period at the end of the
> > sentence is a period and so no space would precede
> it.
> > Bringhurst's book is written for
> typographer--people
> > who set type for printing books and newspapers,
> though
> > less and less of that is being done these days.
> She
> > doesn't note, nor did I look up, when that was
> > written.
> >
> > But for purposes of our Braille readers, it seems
> that
> > no spaces between the dots is preferable, and so
> I've
> > been deleting them when validating, i.e., now that
> the
> > new site is coming online, proofreading. I don't
> know
> > what daisy readers hear--do the voices say
> ellipses or
> > do they say dot space dot space dot space. If the
> > latter, I suppose it would be preferable to her
> dot
> > dot dot.smile (Am I write that Daisy is audio?)
> >
> > Cindy
> >
> >
> > --- Julia <julia.kulak@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> >> Oh, ok, that's good to know.
> >> Thanks. Write to me off list when you get a
> chance.
> >> Julia
> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> From: "Mayrie ReNae" <mayrierenae@xxxxxxxxx>
> >> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 6:35 PM
> >> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: What several
> >> gramatical publications say about
> >> the ellipsis.
> >>
> >>
> >> > Hi Julia,
> >> >
> >> > The upshot is that depending upon who you ask,
> the
> >> ellipsis is
> >> > supposed to be represented either with or
> without
> >> spaces separating the
> >> > dots.  So, whichever way people choose to do
> it,
> >> they're correct as far as
> >> > visual representation is concerned.  At least,
> >> that's what I understood.
> >> >
> >> > Mayrie
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> >> Behalf Of Julia
> >> > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 3:22 PM
> >> > To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: What several
> >> gramatical publications say
> >> > about
> >> > the ellipsis.
> >> >
> >> > Wow, this is very complicated, and if I may say
> >> so, quite technical and
> >> > confusing. Maybe if I knew unicode it would
> make
> >> more sense.
> >> > Julia
> >> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> > From: <mayrierenae@xxxxxxxxx>
> >> > To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 4:30 PM
> >> > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] What several
> gramatical
> >> publications say about
> >> > the
> >> >
> >> > ellipsis.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> Hi Guys,
> >> >>
> >> >> Oh, boy!  The ellipsis gets complicated if you
> >> look into it. Here
> >> >> are some statements that I found about its
> usage
> >> and how it can and
> >> >> should
> >> >> be typed.
> >> >>
> >> >> Have fun!
> >> >>
> >> >> See below.
> >> >>
> >> >> Mayrie
> >> >>
> >> >> In English
> >> >>
> >> >> The style and use varies in the English
> language.
> >> >> The Chicago Manual of Style
> >> >> suggests the use of an ellipsis for any
> omitted
> >> word, phrase, line, or
> >> >> paragraph from within a quoted passage. There
> are
> >> two commonly used
> >> >> methods
> >> >> of using
> >> >> ellipses: one uses three dots for any
> omission,
> >> while the second makes a
> >> >> distinction between omissions within a
> sentence
> >> (using three dots: .?.?.)
> >> >> and
> >> >> omissions between sentences (using a period
> and a
> >> space followed by three
> >> >> dots: . .?.?.). An ellipsis at the end of a
> >> sentence with no sentence
> >> >> following
> >> >> should be followed by a period (for a total of
> >> four dots). The
> >> >> Modern Language Association
> >> >> (MLA) however, used to indicate that an
> ellipsis
> >> must include spaces
> >> >> before
> >> >> and after each dot in all uses. If an ellipsis
> is
> >> meant to represent an
> >> >> omission,
> >> >>
> >> >> square brackets
> >> >> must surround the ellipsis to make it clear
> that
> >> there was no pause in
> >> >> the
> >> >> original quote: [ .?.?. ]. Currently, the MLA
> has
> >> removed the requirement
> >> >> of
> >> >> brackets in their style handbooks. However,
> the
> >> use of brackets is still
> >> >> correct as it clears confusion.
> >> >> [1]
> >> >>
> >> >> According to Robert Bringhurst's
> >> >> Elements of Typographic Style
> >> >> , the details of typesetting ellipses depend
> on
> >> the character and size of
> >> >> the font being set and the typographer's
> >> preference. Bringhurst writes
> >> >> that
> >> >> a
> >> >> full space between each dot is "another
> Victorian
> >> eccentricity. In most
> >> >> contexts, the Chicago ellipsis is much too
> wide"
> >> ? he recommends using
> >> >> flush
> >> >> dots,
> >> >> or
> >> >> thin-spaced
> >> >> dots (up to one-fifth of an
> >> >> em
> >> >> ), or the prefabricated ellipsis character (
> >> >> Unicode
> >> >> U+2026,
> >> >> Latin entity
> >> >> &hellip;). Bringhurst suggests that normally
> an
> >> ellipsis should be spaced
> >> >> fore-and-aft to separate it from the text, but
> >> when it combines with
> >> >> other
> >> >> punctuation,
> >> >> the leading space disappears and the other
> >> punctuation follows. He
> >> >> provides
> >> >> the following examples:
> >> >>
> >> >> i?? j
> >> >> k?.
> >> >> l?, l
> >> >> l,?? l
> >> >> m??
> >> >> n?..!
> >> >>
> >> >> In legal writing in the United States, Rule
> 5.3
> >> in the
> >> >> Bluebook
> >> >> citation guide governs the use of ellipses and
> >> requires a space before
> >> >> the
> >> >> first dot and between the two subsequent dots.
> If
> >> an ellipsis ends the
> >> >> sentence,
> >> >> then there are three dots, each separated by a
> >> space, followed by the
> >> >> final
> >> >> punctuation.
> >> >>
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