[bksvol-discuss] Re: submit better copy

  • From: "siss52" <siss52@xxxxxxx>
  • To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 02:18:18 -0500

E, I just assumed Dr. Cross was being facetious because I couldn't imagine 
that he would really mean it.  So my posting was just meant to be answering 
in kind.  I got a chuckle over it.  You were not serious, were you, Dr. 
Cross?  <smile>

Sue S.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "E." <thoth93@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 9:52 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: submit better copy


What has been said on this list by those who submit and pass through these
books is that it is better to have them in poor quality than not at all.

E.
At 08:40 PM 7/31/2006, you wrote:

>Hmmm, maybe they think that God will fill in anything important that the
>scanner misses? <grin>
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "E." <thoth93@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 4:24 AM
>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: submit better copy
>
>
>>Many of the books with missing words are submitted by a small group of
>>people.  Likewise, those who validate books with repeated missing words
>>where lines are cut off and let them go into the collection are a small
>>group of people.
>>
>>The most common categories of books to suffer from the repeated line cut
>>off missing word issue are romances, particularly those labeled
>>"Christian romances."  Some submitters and some validators apparently
>>feel these books need to be submitted and approved regardless of the cut
>>off line issue.
>>
>>E.
>>
>>
>>At 02:25 AM 7/31/2006, you wrote:
>>
>>>This missing words problem is one thing that is so easy to prevent.  It
>>>comes from people not holding the book flat.  Even with my OpenBook, I
>>>do not get missing words.  I occasionally get words run together, and in
>>>the index to the last book I scanned the page numbers were sometimes run
>>>together, but I don't get missing words.  I understand that some large
>>>books may be hard to keep flat, but most books are not that fat.  It
>>>does take some work to push down on every pass of the scanner, and the
>>>consciensciousness to want to do a good quality scan.  That's perhaps
>>>where the problem is.  I am not aware of any other reason for missing
>>>words.  If there is one, I would like to hear it, because I have not
>>>encountered it. Of course, if the text is not recognized as text, as in
>>>a cursive style, or a huge font, that is one thing.  But it seems from
>>>what I hear in discussions of this problem here that these missing words
>>>are in a fairly standard font, as part of the body of the text.  I would
>>>bet, Cindy, that most of the missing words and parts of words you find
>>>are near the spine. Am I right?
>>>
>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Cindy" <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 12:23 PM
>>>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: submit better copy
>>>
>>>
>>>>Right, Pratik. The point I intended to make--(and I
>>>>don't seem to be doing a good job of making my points
>>>>clearly these days--must be the heat getting to me
>>>>smile) is that even with the K rank spelling, that
>>>>might have caused the submitter or validator to think
>>>>he/she had an excellent product, one can't always be
>>>>sure because of the things it won't catch, such as
>>>>words missing from sentences, in complete sentences,
>>>>etc. So it isn't always the submitter's or validator's
>>>>fault. As you point out, some people--maybe even
>>>>many--rely on the ranked spelling and don't read
>>>>through the book. So if someone downloads even an
>>>>excellent book and finds it not to be so and wants to
>>>>re-submit, they should. And a validator who downloads
>>>>a supposedly excellent book might want to at least
>>>>skim, if not read, the book to see if it is indeed
>>>>excellent or had incomplete sentences or missing words
>>>>and not just assume that the scanner did more than a
>>>>ranked spelling. smile
>>>>
>>>>Cindy
>>>>
>>>>--- Pratik Patel <pratikp1@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Cindy,
>>>>>
>>>>>There may be several factors as to why some books
>>>>>are rated excellent when
>>>>>they shouldn't be.  The rating scale is subjective;
>>>>>what you might consider
>>>>>excellent may mean something quite different to
>>>>>someone else.  And, there is
>>>>>also the fact that not everyone has access to K1K
>>>>>and its rank spelling
>>>>>feature.  As Bookshare's bolunteer process does not
>>>>>ask validators to comb
>>>>>through the book, as many of us do, it is quite
>>>>>difficult to predict what
>>>>>the cause for mislabeled book is.
>>>>>
>>>>>Pratik
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>>>>>Behalf Of Cindy
>>>>>Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 8:41 PM
>>>>>To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: submit better copy
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks, Jake. That's what I thought. I admit that I
>>>>>don't read posts that seem to have information that
>>>>>would not relate to what I do, but that is the
>>>>>impressson I'd gained from what I did read about
>>>>>K1000's ranking--which might explain why some books
>>>>>are rated Excellent or good and really aren't. smile
>>>>>and sigh
>>>>>
>>>>>Cindy
>>>>>
>>>>>--- Jake Brownell <jabrown@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> > Cindy,
>>>>> >
>>>>> > As we've discussed before, Kurzweil 1000 merely
>>>>>has
>>>>> > a few more approaches to
>>>>> > using a standard spell checker than does other
>>>>> > programs. Rank Spelling for
>>>>> > instance, simply orders the words the spell
>>>>>checker
>>>>> > finds by the number of
>>>>> > times they occur in the document. There's really
>>>>> > nothing else different
>>>>> > about the feature.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > So, no, no, no, and no, Kurzweil won't find words
>>>>> > that are split, words that
>>>>> > are missing, and will not catch numbers in the
>>>>>place
>>>>> > of the letter I when it
>>>>> > stands alone (ie it's the pronoun, but it would
>>>>>find
>>>>> > something like m1ddle).
>>>>> >
>>>>> > The quality rater BookShare users is very similar,
>>>>> > and won't catch any of
>>>>> > those mistakes either. One of the reasons books
>>>>>get
>>>>> > a higher quality rating
>>>>> > than they might otherwise deserve. Validators
>>>>>should
>>>>> > be aware of this and if
>>>>> > the book contains several areas that have these
>>>>> > types of mistakes, should
>>>>> > adjust the rating accordingly. Or, if numerous
>>>>> > enough, ask themselves why
>>>>> > they are accepting the book in its current
>>>>> > condition.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Jake
>>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Cindy" 
>>>>> > <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> > To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> > Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 2:18 PM
>>>>> > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] submit better copy
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > > Tracy,
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > I definitely think it would be a good thing for
>>>>> > you to
>>>>> > > submit your better copy. Be sure to put a note
>>>>>in
>>>>> > the
>>>>> > > comments section that you've looked at both
>>>>>copies
>>>>> > and
>>>>> > > yours corrects errors that are still in the
>>>>>other
>>>>> > > copy.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > I think sometimes scanners mark books as
>>>>>excellent
>>>>> > > when they're not, perhaps because whatever
>>>>>they're
>>>>> > > using misleads them--for example, if I
>>>>>understand
>>>>> > > correctly, K1000 won't catch errors that are
>>>>> > correctly
>>>>> > > spelled but are the wrong word for the context,
>>>>>or
>>>>> > the
>>>>> > > numeral one for a capital I. Will it catch words
>>>>> > that
>>>>> > > are missing half if the first half is a word by
>>>>> > > itself? I'm finding a lot of those in the book
>>>>>I'm
>>>>> > > validating now, where words are hyphenated at
>>>>>the
>>>>> > end
>>>>> > > of a line but only the first part of the
>>>>> > hyphenated
>>>>> > > word is in the scan and it's a word, e.g., "day"
>>>>> > but
>>>>> > > the second part, "light" is missing, I'm
>>>>> > > assuming,perhaps incorrectly, that K1000 won't
>>>>> > count
>>>>> > > that as an error. And what about words that are
>>>>> > > missing altogether? Again, in the book I'm
>>>>> > validating
>>>>> > > now, there are a lot of those. Presumably the
>>>>> > scanner
>>>>> > > didn't hold down the book at the binding (it's
>>>>> > over
>>>>> > > 900 pages and heavy and would ve difficult to
>>>>>do)
>>>>> > so
>>>>> > > several words at the ends of sentences are
>>>>> > missing.
>>>>> > > Would K1000 give such a book a lower rating, or
>>>>> > does
>>>>> > > it just catch spelling errors?
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > And please, no one suggest that I reject this
>>>>> > book.
>>>>> > > It's an interesting and worthwhile book to have
>>>>>in
>>>>> > the
>>>>> > > collection, and I'm enjoying reading it.
>>>>> > Correcting as
>>>>> > > I go along is no problem. I can't imagine anyone
>>>>> > > rescanning it, but even if they did, it would
>>>>>have
>>>>> > to
>>>>> > > be revalidated, and I'm sure the whole process
>>>>> > would
>>>>> > > take longer thanit's going to take me to
>>>>> > perfectit.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > Cindy
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > -
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
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>>>>
>>>>
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