[bksvol-discuss] putting blame where it belongs smile
- From: Grandma Cindy <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 17:39:45 -0700 (PDT)
I agree that it hurts--and I don't want readers to
think that the errors are due to our careless, so I
write a note to that effect in the long synopsis.
G.Cindy
--- Bob <rwiley@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> You perfectionists keep your cotton-pickin fingers
> off of my book! <lol>
>
> Seriously, as much as is possible when I run across
> a questionable error, if
> it could be considered a scanning error in some way
> I'll correct it. But, if
> there's no way it could be a scanno then I'll let
> the publisher show his
> sloppiness and leave it alone, as much as it hurts
> to do it.
>
> Bob
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "eric troup" <yakkoman@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 6:45 PM
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Books rated excellent
> recently added to the
> collection that are really only good
>
>
> > <sheepish grin> So do I, but I'd read somewhere,
> as far as I can
> > remember, that it was frowned upon, considered
> interfering with original
> > content. <Shrug>
> > On 17 Apr 2008, at 21:26, Cindy Ray wrote:
> >
> >> I do fix things like that.
> >>
> >> Cindy Lou Ray. Each day is a new adventure.
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "eric troup" <yakkoman@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 3:25 PM
> >> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Books rated
> excellent recently added to
> >> the collection that are really only good
> >>
> >>
> >> I suppose you're right, but I have a real hard
> time not correcting
> >> things like "He begin to notice he was sweating
> as the lights
> >> dimmed." I know we're not supposed to fix it,
> but dammit, that's
> >> supposed to be "began to notice!" Don't get me
> wrong, I don't fix
> >> sentence structure or anything intrusive like
> that, but there are
> >> times when it was clearly an editor's oops, and I
> do have a hard time
> >> not fixing those. They jump out at me like
> muggers on a darkly-lit
> >> street.
> >>
> >> On 17 Apr 2008, at 10:31, Lora wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> Like you, I don't do a global find and replace,
> because that can
> >>> result in
> >>> new and interesting errors that need to be fixed
> later. But like
> >>> you, when
> >>> I find an error, I do a find, and replace things
> on a one at a time
> >>> basis.
> >>>
> >>> Yes, we can spell check as we read. JAWS will
> announce spelling
> >>> errors.
> >>> You just need to make sure it's not announcing
> grammar errors, too,
> >>> as that
> >>> can become annoying. Many novels don't quite
> pass the grammar
> >>> check, and it
> >>> reports lots of false errors. Besides, we're
> not here to correct
> >>> grammar.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf Of Grandma
> >>> Cindy
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 9:50 PM
> >>> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Books rated
> excellent recently added
> >>> to the
> >>> collection that are really only good
> >>>
> >>> My method is slightly different from yours,
> though I've thought of
> >>> doing a
> >>> spell-check first. However, I don't. I read the
> book with the spell-
> >>> check
> >>> on--I don't know if blind people can do that or
> if it would be too
> >>> annoying.
> >>> I correct as I go, and when I find an incorrect
> word that us
> >>> actually a real
> >>> word but not the right one, I do a find and
> replace for others--not
> >>> a global
> >>> replace, though; I've been caught too many times
> having changed
> >>> things that
> >>> shouldn't have been changed and having to go
> back and correct them
> >>> and I've
> >>> learned my lesson. When I've finished reading
> the book, I do a final
> >>> spell-check, and usually I do find a few--very
> few--words that I've
> >>> missed--and I do a final page-number check.
> >>>
> >>> I don't validate indices or bibliographies, but
> I don't delete them,
> >>> either.
> >>> I offer to do them later if a reader would like
> me to.
> >>>
> >>> G.Cindy
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Hi Judy and Others,
> >>>>
> >>>> I am always surprised when I download an
> excellent book and find
> >>>> that
> >>>> it's definitely not. Although these books are
> frustrating
> >>>> discoveries, I think the majority of Excellent
> books are deserving
> >>>> of
> >>>> that rating.
> >>>>
> >>>> Getting a book up to that rating is a joint
> effort, though. Like
> >>>> you,
> >>>> I appreciate the scanners' comments, explaining
> the validation
> >>>> steps
> >>>> that they followed before submitting the book.
> It doesn't change
> >>>> my
> >>>> approach to validating, but it informs me of
> how much time my
> >>>> validation process is likely to take.
> >>>>
> >>>> For what it's worth, I begin by searching for
> the number 1, in
> >>>> combinations such as 1 1' 1. 1? And so forth.
> >>>>
> >>>> I then search for random characters that
> typically don't belong in
> >>>> the
> >>>> book:
> >>>> caret, accent, tilde, percent, pound, and so
> on. By finding these
> >>>> and
> >>>> eliminating them, if appropriate, I get an
> overall glimpse of how
> >>>> much
> >>>> validating needs to be done.
> >>>>
> >>>> Spell-check or not to spell-check: I then make
> a determination on
> >>>> whether I'll run the spellchecker. For most
> novels and nonfiction,
> >>>> I
> >>>> will; but for books such as Buddhism in Action,
> where I'm battling
> >>>> two
> >>>> spelling problems, lots of Hindi words and lots
> of scanographical
> >>>> errors that resulted in actual words, I've
> determined that it isn't
> >>>> worth it to run spell check.
> >>>> I'll rely on my full reading of the book to
> catch errors.
> >>>>
> >>>> I then scan for common scanos, such as die for
> the and comer for
> >>>> corner. If I don't find lots of these, I
> figure it's a good sign.
> >>>>
> >>>> I usually then start reading the book. Since
> I'm going to read
> >>>> straight through, this is when I check things
> like whether all the
> >>>> pages are there, whether lines are missing,
> whether certain text is
> >>>> garbled, etc.
> >>>>
> >>>> I've found that there are errors that are
> better caught with
> >>>> speech,
> >>>> and other errors better caught with Braille.
> >>>>
> >>>> Example: One excellent book I downloaded might
> have read all right
> >>>> with Braille, but was a nightmare when I read
> it with speech. This
> >>>> was a book I wanted to read, and one I did
> read, even though there
> >>>> weren't spaces after quotation marks, resulting
> in things like, "I
> >>>> hate this,"she said. (Funny thing is, JAWS
> reads this just fine,
> >>>> but
> >>>> my Pacmate tried to run this and she together
> because there was no
> >>>> space. It did this all through the book,
> because neither the
> >>>> scanner
> >>>> or validator went in and put spaces after the
> quotation marks.
> >>>> This
> >>>> is the kind of thing we need to find good ways
> to catch.
> >>>>
> >>>> Finally, if the book has indices or other
> extras, I make a
> >>>> determination as to whether they can be
> salvaged. I think I've
> >>>> only
> >>>> ever deleted one index, which was very nearly
> garbled beyond
> >>>> recognition.
> >>>> It was for a very short
> >>>> book, and I felt it didn't add much to the
> book.
> >>>>
> >>>> As I'm uploading, I review everything that will
> be visible when the
> >>>> book goes into the collection. For instance, I
> check the short and
> >>>> long synopses, title, author, publisher,
> copyright date, ISBN, and
> >>>> the
> >>>> selected categories and adult rating etc., to
> make sure it looks
> >>>> good.
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm not saying I won't miss things, but this is
> the rough process I
> >>>> use.
> >>>>
> >>>> One of my frustrations is when a scanner
> uploads a book and marks
> >>>> it
> >>>> as excellent, and then I open the book and it's
> clearly not. I
> >>>> downloaded one recently where I found lots of
> missing words or
> >>>> garbled
> >>>> lines, and I knew I wouldn't be able to correct
> it easily. I
> >>>> simply
> >>>> returned the book to step one, as I figured
> it'd take more effort
> >>>> to
> >>>> fix it than I felt I could manage. I guess I
> could see how it
> >>>> might
> >>>> have gotten an excellent rating, as there were
> good-sized chunks of
> >>>> very readable text, but when it went bad, it
> was really bad. I'd
> >>>> appreciate an honest rating.
> >>>> The book probably
> >>>> deserved good, which at least would have warned
> potential
> >>>> validators
> >>>> that it would require a fair bit of work.
> >>>>
> >>>> May I ask scanners how they determine whether
> to rate their
> >>>> submissions as good or excellent?
> >>>>
> >>>> And I'd love to see Bookshare scan the book on
> initial submission,
> >>>> and
> >>>> offer a potential rating. Does it do this yet?
> I know it's
> >>>> something
> >>>> we've talked about in the past.
> >>>>
> >>>> Finally, I'd love to see a way to leave a
> comment as to why a
> >>>> validator returned a book to step one. This
> could include comments
> >>>> such as: Frequent Hindi words; not familiar
> enough to validate ...
> >>>> Or
> >>>> has lots of pictures that will require
> interpretation by a sighted
> >>>> person ... Or even ... This book has too many
> errors for me to
> >>>> validate at this time.
> >>>>
> >>>> I hope there's value in some of this. Mostly,
> it's just me
> >>>> thinking
> >>>> publicly.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf Of Judy s.
> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 5:08 PM
> >>>> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Books rated excellent
> recently added to
> >>>> the
> >>>> collection that are really only good
> >>>>
> >>>> Let me add my 'ditto' to the complaints posted
> here today about
> >>>> books
> >>>> entering the collection recently that aren't up
> to snuff.
> >>>>
> >>>> I was just crabbing off-list to Grandma Cindy
> about this last week.
> >>>> I've downloaded several books this last month
> that had just entered
> >>>> the collection which had many obvious errors,
> but were rated
> >>>> excellent. I've certainly missed stuff myself
> when validating,
> >>>> even
> >>>> though I read through every single book I
> validate, but the errors
> >>>> I
> >>>> found in downloaded books were things like
> chapter after chapter
> >>>> with
> >>>> "1"
> >>>> instead of "I" in the text.
> >>>>
> >>>> As a validator, I appreciate scanners like
> Shelley and Mayrie (and
> >>>> many
> >>>> others) who put in their comments whether or
> not they've read the
> >>>> scan
> >>>> through, if they've spell-checked it, stripped
> headings, verified
> >>>> page
> >>>> numbers and the like.
> >>>> I'm much more likely to download a book from
> the step 1 list if
> >>>> that
> >>>> information is available, because I know what
> to expect and can
> >>>> judge
> >>>> how much time I will have to allocate to give
> that book the
> >>>> attention
> >>>> it might need.
> >>>>
> >>>> Judy s.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> To unsubscribe from this list send a blank
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> >>>> bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
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> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ***WISH LIST (CALLED REQUESTED ADDITIONS TO THE
> BOOKSHARE
> >>> COLLECTION)IS
> >>> AVAILABLE AT
> >>>
>
http://people.delphiforums.com/jamiecalton/Book_Requests.htm
> >>> http://www.friendsofbookshare.org/
> >>>
>
http://studentpages.alma.edu/~07jmyate/book_requests.htm
> >>>
> >>> A LIST OF BOOKS CURRENTLY BEING SCANNED IS
> AVAILABLE AT
> >>>
>
http://people.delphiforums.com/jamiecalton/scanning.html
> >>>
> >>> Jake's site for useful links:
> http://www.jbrownell.com/bkslinks.html
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
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> >>
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> >>
> >>
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> >> line.
> >>
> >
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
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>
***WISH LIST (CALLED REQUESTED ADDITIONS TO THE BOOKSHARE COLLECTION)IS
AVAILABLE AT
http://people.delphiforums.com/jamiecalton/Book_Requests.htm
http://www.friendsofbookshare.org/
http://studentpages.alma.edu/~07jmyate/book_requests.htm
A LIST OF BOOKS CURRENTLY BEING SCANNED IS AVAILABLE AT
http://people.delphiforums.com/jamiecalton/scanning.html
Jake's site for useful links: http://www.jbrownell.com/bkslinks.html
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