[bksvol-discuss] Re: paragraph spacing
- From: Cindy <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 14:52:07 -0800 (PST)
Sonme of us have been doing that because that is what
we were told to do to try to avoid the automatic
stripper from stripping page numbers. Also, when page
numbers are at the end of the page, to have a blank
line after the text, then the page number, then
another blank line before the page break.
However, theoretically, since the stripper supposedly
strips repeated words and page numbers are different
on every page, it shouldn't matter; the number could
come directly after the page break.
Confusing, isn't it. smile
Cindy
--- Evan Reese <mentat1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> That reminds me: Where should the page breaks be?
> I've noticed that my
> files have lines around the page number, but it
> appears that the format is
> page break
> line
> page number
> line
> text
>
> but I can't always be sure that the page break is
> not directly ahead of the
> page number and the blank line is on the previous
> page in front of the page
> break. How critical is this? Will the processing
> in Daisy and the Braille
> translator not number the pages accordingly as long
> as the page break is
> there? It's not hard to put these wherever they
> need to be globally.
>
> Thanks.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jake Brownell" <jabrown@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 12:25 PM
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: paragraph spacing
>
>
> > Hi Cindy,
> > Feel free to leave the books formatting of
> paragraphs alone. If the
> > original file starts with paragraphs indented, try
> to follow that pattern.
> > If they have a blank line between them, stick with
> that. Basically what
> > you've been doing.
> >
> > The reasoning is this. A DAISY player will decide
> how to render
> > paragraphs. The BookShare tool will put paragraph
> tags around the correct
> > areas and that'll tell the DAISY interpreter what
> paragraph is which and
> > it will display accordingly. During the conversion
> to Braille the
> > translator should automatically remove those extra
> lines, at least in my
> > experience.
> >
> > So don't worry about changing the format globally,
> as that of course can
> > have bad intensions too, like deleting the lines
> around page numbers which
> > we don't want.
> >
> > One less thing to worry about makes for a good
> Monday right? *grin*
> >
> > Cheers!
> > Jake
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Cindy" <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 2:19 PM
> > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: paragraph spacing
> >
> >
> >> Thank you, Evan. That is indeed what I said, and
> I'm
> >> glad for your correction. It was quite some time
> ago
> >> that I asked how readers preferred that
> paragraphs be
> >> done. I could have forgotten which group said
> >> what--but now that you've told me that spaced
> lines
> >> between paragraphs is more difficult for braille
> >> readers, and I'm sure it doesn't matter to Daisy
> >> readers, I won't use them--and I guess I'll
> change
> >> them to indented paragraphs if I find them in a
> book I
> >> download for validation. It shouldn't be too
> difficult
> >> by using a global replace. I do that with
> Marissa's
> >> List to eliminate the spacing.
> >>
> >> Cindy
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --- Evan Reese <mentat1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I'm not sure what you're saying here. Are you
> >>> saying that Braille readers
> >>> have said that they prefer blank lines between
> >>> paragraphs? If so, then I
> >>> would just say that I am *definitely* not one of
> >>> them. I have been reading
> >>> Braille books for decades, and it just doesn't
> feel
> >>> natural to me to have
> >>> blank lines between paragraphs. Now that I read
> >>> books on a Braille display,
> >>> I don't like them for an additional reason: I
> have
> >>> to scroll past a blank
> >>> line after each paragraph. I just don't see the
> >>> point, not to mention the
> >>> extra button push or scroll click needed, which
> adds
> >>> up to thousands for
> >>> each book. My OpenBook puts blank lines between
> >>> paragraphs when I save in
> >>> .rtf format, and the first thing I do - thanks
> to
> >>> Jake's helpful
> >>> information - is eliminate them in Word.
> >>>
> >>> If you didn't actually say that most Braille
> readers
> >>> prefer blank lines
> >>> between paragraphs, then I'm sorry for wasting
> your
> >>> time, but as it is
> >>> worded, it seems a bit ambiguous.
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Cindy" <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
> >>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>> Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 11:21 AM
> >>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: paragraph spacing
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > Sarah,
> >>> >
> >>> > Thank you for the information. We can now
> validate
> >>> and
> >>> > upload txt files as rtf--one of the major
> >>> improvements
> >>> > bookshare has made.
> >>> >
> >>> > I do use Word, and have figured out out to set
> the
> >>> > indentations of paragraphs in the document as
> a
> >>> whole,
> >>> > but how would I set it for skipping lines
> between
> >>> > paragraphs? Where would I find that? Not that
> I
> >>> want
> >>> > to any more, after your explanation of what
> >>> happens to
> >>> > the skipped lines--although Braille readers
> were
> >>> the
> >>> > ones, as I recall, who said they preferred
> >>> that--but I
> >>> > am curious to know, in case I do want to. SOme
> of
> >>> the
> >>> > books I validate already have skipped linesw
> >>> betwween
> >>> > paragraphs and then I don't change them, of
> >>> course.
> >>> >
> >>> > Cindy
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > --- Sarah Van Oosterwijck
> >>> > <curiousentity@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> >> It doesn't matter too much how you format
> >>> >> paragraphs, because most people either read
> with
> >>> >> speech or braille, in which case they don't
> >>> >> experience your formatting, or they can
> adjust
> >>> the
> >>> >> paragraph formatting to suit their needs once
> >>> they
> >>> >> download the book from bookshare. What is
> very
> >>> >> important is that you let your software do
> the
> >>> >> formatting--meaning that you use Word's
> paragraph
> >>> >> formatting menu to set how paragraphs are
> >>> displayed,
> >>> >> because that will let the conversion software
> >>> handle
> >>> >> paragraphs in whatever way makes sense for
> the
> >>> >> format used. Besides, that method really is
> a
> >>> lot
> >>> >> easier and faster than manipulating every
> >>> paragraph
> >>> >> by hand.
> >>> >> Really I believe bookshare's software only
> looks
> >>> for
> >>> >> paragraphs, but doesn't actually preserve or
> care
> >>> >> about how they were formatted in the
> original.
> >>> >> Deciding how to display paragraphs is a
> matter
> >>> for
> >>> >> the software being used by the reader and
> totally
> >>> >> depends on the format being used.
> >>> >> DAISY seems to suppress blank lines for
> >>> paragraphs,
> >>> >> HTML double spaces paragraphs, and BRF uses a
> >>> single
> >>> >> new line character followed by a two space
> >>> indent.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> The only exception I would give to this rule
> is
> >>> for
> >>> >> TXT files. If you submit the TXT file back
> to
> >>> >> bookshare as an RTF everything is fine, but
> if
> >>> you
> >>> >> upload as TXT then paragraphing you have done
> in
> >>> >> your Word processor may very well be lost, so
> >>> double
> >>> >> returns may be the only way to allow any
> >>> >> paragraphing to survive the conversion
> process.
> >>> >> Unfortunately the hole paragraphing issue
> with
> >>> TXT
> >>> >> files is something I haven't completely
> figured
> >>> out,
> >>> >> so I can't write anything more informative or
> >>> clear.
> >>> >> I'd just suggest that you avoid uploading
> TXT
> >>> >> files.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Sarah Van Oosterwijck
> >>> >> Assistive Technology Trainer
> >>> >> http://home.earthlink.net/~netentity
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
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