Hi all,
I have to ask what this message has to do with Robert and Gwen. I
also have to remonstrate gently with you folks. I had over twenty
messages with the subj line, "For Gwen and Robert". I deleted all
but the last one. I won't read messages that are addressed to
individuals because I believe that they are private messages. If
you put a subj line that says "for so-and-so" it's for So-and-so,
*not* for the whole list. If that was indeed the case, then why
didn't you send the message privately? Sorry, but this particular
problem with email lists presses my buttons. What you do when you
put such a subject line is say, this message is for specific people,
not about a specific subject. So, here I am with some twenty-five
messages for Gwen and Robert, all of which, as far as I'm concerned,
could have or should have been sent privately because they were
addressed specifically to Gwen and Robert. I'll stop whining, but
could we please make it a practice *not* to shut out others on this
list. Thanks.
Ann P.
Original message:
Monica, is right.
I have been volunteering for many years, and am functionally blind,
I can't read print, I use a screen reader to do all of my work on
the computer and my monitor stays off.
Like Monica, if I find a book that requires the pictures or charts
I find someone who can see to do them. Smile.
Gwen I don't have any right now, but when I get a simple book, will
gladly hold it for you.
I did that with Doug, gave him five easy books to work on and gave
him that first couple of successes. Smile.
I know my scans were bad, and luckily they aren't on the site any
longer, smile.
It is a learning process.
Shelley L. Rhodes, VRT
Guide dogs for the Blind Alumni Association
www.guidedogs.com <http://www.guidedogs.com>
Reading a book is like rewriting it for yourself. You bring to a
novel, anything you read, all your experience of the world. You
bring your history and you read it in your own terms. -Angela
Carter, novelist and journalist (1940-1992)
----- Original Message -----
From: Monica Willyard <mailto:rhyami@xxxxxxxxx>
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:19 AM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: For Gwen and Robert
Hi Gwen. The things you've mentioned are cosmetic and are not
mandatory according to the manual. They're like the rosettes of
icing on a cake. The layers of the cake are what really matter in
the end. As a proofreader, your primary job is to listen to all of
the text, fix scannos to the best of your ability, make sure all of
the book is there, and make sure that the copyright notice is
intact. If you do those things, Bookshare will accept your book.
You don't have to be a computer genius, and we have several
submitters who work well with new proofreaders.
Just like anything else you learn, please start small. Consider
proofreading a book by a submitter who has done a lot of the prep
work. Try working with someone who won't mind if you make a
mistake. Focus on reading the book and getting comfortable with the
process of proofreading. Then you can decide how far you want to go
with adjusting the cosmetics.
You might want to start out with books that are rated excellent
from the step 1 page. Books rated good are harder to proof. They
would be sort of like jumping in a pool at the deep end while not
knowing how to swim.
You don't have to worry about line length. That's something people
using Word deal with. I keep thinking that you and Robert use
Kurzweil for scanning. If so, use that for proofreading too. It has
many features that make proofreading easier. If you use your
Kurzweil for proofreading, you won't have to adjust your page size
or margins like Word users do.
Kurzweil tells you when it finds a page break, so you'll be able to
tell that they're present. It even makes a sound when it goes to the next page.
As far as extra blank lines go, the Bookshare software removes
those while converting to daisy format. The primary reason some
people remove them by hand is because it looks better for sighted
proofreaders. Since you'd be the proofreader, it wouldn't be
necessary for you to do that. Bookshare's tool will do it
automatically when Carrie approves your book. Over time, you may
start to notice line breaks in the middle of sentences. You can fix
those. That skill can wait a bit though while you're learning about
working with text.
If you proofread in Kurzweil, you can handle fonts with a hotkey
built into that program. While this is helpful for good navigation,
the Bookshare software knows what to do if you aren't able to
adjust the fonts. I can teach you how to do this. It sounds harder
than it really is. You won't need any sighted help to do it, and
you can't break anything by using the font hotkey.
Gwen, you already have what it takes to be a good proofreader. You
just haven't honed the skill yet. You are smart enough to do it,
and making mistakes just means you're learning. (smile)
Monica Willyard
"The best way to predict the future is to create it." -- Peter Drucker
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of gwen tweedy
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 11:23 PM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: For Gwen and Robert
I think what you do is grand.
I think what scares me about proof reading is this.
I've heard you have to change faunts, and make sure lines are so
long and cut off at the right places.
It seems like I've heard that anyway, and I'd have no idea about
that, I just know what things sound like to me.
All I have are my ears or seeing if something occurrs and is right in a book.
I wouldn't have the least idea, if my line is to long, all I know
is what it sounds like in my ears.
I can't look at it to see like how long the line is or the
paragraph is stuff like that.
I can tell split words and can fix those and put Chapters in I hope
at the right places, and I think I could take the headings out.
But other than that, all this other stuff y'all do in proof reading
I'd be just lost.
----- Original Message -----
From: Kim Friedman <mailto:kimfri11@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 9:37 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: For Gwen and Robert
My goodness Gwen, you have nothing to fear when it comes to
proofreading should you decide to do it. One thing I can tell you
is that there are many ways to do it. I have a BrailleNote mPower
and I use it as a Braille display while I read a book from the
beginning to the end. I listen to my screen reader read the text
while I follow along with my fingers using the BrailleNote. I'd
call it kind of like a feedback or redundancy thing. Have you seen
those flour sifters with double or triple screens in them? Think of
what I do as if I were sifting flour because what the ears hear the
fingers check. I have to make sure that everything is all present
and accounted for, title, author bylines, copyright dates, ISbn
numbers, publishers, etc. After the prefatory material I read every
word of the book. Now I'm taking in the story (if I'm reading
fiction), I'm checking to see if there are any errors in the scan
you might have missed. If I find any, I use the delete key so I
only get rid of stuff that is extraneous to the text. I'd write you
and let you know what I'm doing. If I come across a bit of
something in the text I'm not sure about, I'd email you and ask you
about it, pasting the bit of text I'm having trouble with in the
email to you. You'd send me the copy of what the text should be,
and I make sure it's in the file I'm working with. One thing I
heard right from the start was to have a copy of the file that
isn't touched in case I mess up the one I'm working with. I'm still
in the beginning stages of this thing. I don't do anything fancy.
Eventually I expect to learn the art of this. What I want to know
is if the text makes sense. I don't heed the word processing
program should it have grammar suggestions for me. If I come across
a weird spelling of a word or name, I'd want to know how many times
it's in the text. I'd probably write you to verify that the word
and the way it's spelled is supposed to be in the text. My
philosophy is to do just enough and err on the side of caution.
Some people may not use Braille at all when proofreading while
others do. I'm still learning the ropes, but so far what I've done
is in the Bookshare collection so I must be doing something right
or at least I hope this is so. Nobody will twist your arm and you
can proofread anything that interests you. So far everything has
interested me. The very first thing I did was a children's book,
but the others I've done are fiction books for grownups. Regards, Kim.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of gwen tweedy
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 2:56 PM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: For Gwen and Robert
I too assumed that those books would go very fast simply from
things I have read here from time to time.
I think they are getting lost in the admin cue now that would be up
to him to correct me if I am wrong.
And yes for me, if I were a proof reader, except for some of the
books he's helped me with, I wouldn't read them either I just can't
read those kinds of books.
As for my books, I've learned a lot, I feel that even as much as
recently I have gotten better, but as for myself, I am keenly aware
that my books might be as fast on the uptake because of my past
reputation as a new scanner.
So I understand that, and can now deal with that.
If I find that I am not making it I promise you, I'll be the first
to leave volunteering altogether, because I do not need nor want to
be in the way of good reading material here bookshare is so famous for.
I promise you, I would not want anyone putting up junk from me that
would not be fair to y'all.
Some things you can learn, some things a person can't and if I fail
to get it, then I'm out of here lock stock and barrel.
Most here scan and proof excellently, and I would no more tarnish
that reputation for this whole world.
It was my hope when I first put my name up to be a volunteer to put
up more of the Christian type of books, if not Christian wholesome
books those my grandma would care to read.
But that wholly has not happened, from a number of factors of my
own making the buck stops here as it were.
If I fail to meet this my personal goal, that at that time, which
could be today, tomorrow, or perhaps never then I would bow out and
leave it to those who know best.
I wish I could proof books, but I've bungled scans lord knows what
I'd do to a proof.
Plus there are so many rules to proofing my lands I couldn't keep
up with them all, that is to hard for me simple mind LOL.
I most likely should have just stuck to reading it would have been
a lot less trouble for us all.
You have a wonderful day,
Gwen
----- Original Message -----
From: Monica Willyard <mailto:rhyami@xxxxxxxxx>
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 3:26 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] For Gwen and Robert
Gwen, you're right. Robert is an experienced and valuable member of
our community. Robert, how many books do you have that are waiting
to be approved? Are they on step 1 or in the admin queue?
Gwen, there are several factors in play regarding Robert's books. I
don't know if you're aware of all of these, so I thought I'd share
them. Some of them can probably be addressed by people on this
list. Others can't.
On the staff side, Carrie was on vacation for a week before
Thanksgiving. Also, most of the staff had some time off last week
for the holiday. I have found that she generally approves books
from volunteers within 24 to 48 hours of their entry into the admin
queue. Carrie used to be a volunteer just like us, and she
remembers the frustration of waiting and waiting for a book to be
approved. She has worked with Robert as a fellow volunteer as well
and knows of his skills and flexible attitude.
From here, it looks like the bottleneck right now is in getting
books proofread. The number of books on step 1 is piling up again.
Our number of active volunteers and their preferences for reading
determine how fast a book is processed. This factor affects
everyone who submits books. For awhile everyone was worried about
not having any books to work on. Some people quit looking for new
books on step 1 because of all of the books with holds on them.
Now there are a lot of excellent books needing a proofreader.
The other factor, on a more personal level, is hard for me to
explain. Robert is a consistent and dedicated volunteer. I respect
him for his dedication and teamwork. Yet I am hesitant to take his
books for a personal reason. In the past, Robert has been willing
to scan some adult-rated content for Bookshare. It's my perception
that much of what he scans would be classified as steamy romances.
I prefer not to read the steamier books. This isn't about Robert or
his skills as a submitter. It's about me and what I want to read. I
generally don't like to draw attention to this issue since I think
it's a personal one on my part. Since I feel uncomfortable asking
Robert which books are adult, I let others take his books when he
submits. I figured it would make him angry if I asked about it. If
I am wrong about what Robert submits, I apologize and take full
responsibility for not checking out my assumptions with him.
I think what I'm saying is that we might do a better job of
communicating with each other. I know I need to do that. I didn't
know that Robert's books weren't getting added to the collection. I
also assumed that most people are more comfortable with adult
content than I am and that those would be done quickly. I could be
wrong on both counts.
The last thing I want is for you or Robert to feel ignored or
unappreciated. I don't have an immediate solution. I think we could
find ways to work this out together, with the help of the Bookshare
community. It would help us fix the problem if we know exactly
what's going on, if the books are on step 1, or are they getting
lost in the admin queue.
Monica Willyard
"The best way to predict the future is to create it." -- Peter Drucker
------------------------------------------------------------------------
At 10:32 AM 11/30/2009, you wrote:
I think a timely manner is the key.
And those who have scanned for years and their books are good, and
everyone knows they are good, to me there shouldn't be a delay.
Some books get up there right away, so what is the difference in books?
Especially those of like Robert's when his books have been tried
and true for a long time.
Eventually volunteers are gonna quit submitting books, because they
aren't getting anywhere. Some books stay up there for a long time.
It's grand for kids books grand for grants, but I think they are
forgetting the submitters especially those hard working ones like
Bob who turns in a quality scan each and every time not like his
wife who turns no quality scans LOL.
I understand me, but Bob that is different.
His should go right away.
Gwen
----- Original Message -----
From: robert tweedy <mailto:roberttweedy@xxxxxxx>
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 11:58 AM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: What is the main concern these days?
That's fine as long as our books get into the system on a timey matter.
----- Original Message -----
From: Denise Thompson <mailto:deniset@xxxxxxx>
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 2:50 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: What is the main concern these days?
I think BKS's concern is to do books that fit their grant money.
educational which seems to be most books for kids and teens in
addition to text books, of course. Adult books don't seem to be
educational- especially those that have some romance in them. Since
they have out-sourcers and do their grant books with them as well
as in house, I feel like I need to continue to scan adult books for
the rest of us who aren't students and who don't want to read kids
books and teen books.
Denise
At 09:32 AM 11/30/2009, you wrote:
I've noticed a strong emphasis on children's books as well. This is
wonderful, so long as it isn't at the expense of books for us adults, too.
Melissa
robert tweedy wrote:
I am just wondering about bookshare policy of submitted books.
Taking a look at the cue, it looks like children's books which is
okay but what about books that are just for pleasure.
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