[bksvol-discuss] Re: footnote number locations
- From: Grandma Cindy <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 02:08:36 -0700 (PDT)
O.K. When you have time, I would appreciate seeing
books--several, not occasional, that have footnote
numbers in the middle of sentences that are not next
to quoted material or do not define words. The ones in
Kipling that define the words, for example, are
numbers for the most part, and not daggers or
asterisks, though I know what you mean.
Remember, however, that I cannot download books in the
collection, so you'll have to either send me some
sample pages as rtf attachments or giveme the titles
and I'll check them out at the library.
By now you've probably read my response to Elizabeth
listing the books with footnotes that I still have in
my files. Earlier ones I deleted, but one I remember
reading, though I didn't validate it, is The Speckled
Monster.
Sometimes, too, though not very often these days, the
source is included at the end of the sentence, instead
of a footnote number.
Cindy
--- Evan Reese <mentat1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Okay, I once again think we are not talking about
> the same kind of notes.
> I'm not talking about the footnotes at the bottom of
> the page, usually
> denoted by asterisks or daggers, but notes which
> appear at the end of the
> book or at the end of each chapter of a book. Those
> are not footnotes. The
> ones in the middle of sentences that I am refering
> to in the books I have
> mentioned are these kinds of notes - also, I believe
> refered to as endnotes,
> or just notes. They do indeed include source
> citations. I can give you
> chapter and verse - in a manner of speaking, <smile>
> - if you'd like.
>
> But not tonight. <grin>
>
> Evan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Grandma Cindy" <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 1:46 AM
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: footnote number
> locations
>
>
> > Again, let me emphasize that I DO NOT MOVE
> FOOTNOTE
> > NUMBERS. I leave them located where they are. And
> > again, I suspect that in the Tolkien they are next
> to
> > the words that the footnote, probably on the
> bottom of
> > the page, defines or explains, as is the case with
> the
> > Kipling Verse. But when footnotes refer to source
> > material or phrases or sentences or paragraphs
> from
> > source material they are usually at the end of the
> > sentence or paragraph although occasionally, if
> there
> > is a quoted paragraph, they may come at the end of
> the
> > quotation.
> >
> > I have noticed that since there has recently been
> > accusations, and proof,of plagiarism on the part
> of
> > some famous historian writers, other writers are
> not
> > footnoting much more frequently. I've recently
> read a
> > couple of books--fortunately not validating
> > them--where almost every sentence is footnoted.
> It's
> > really annoying.
> >
> > Cindy
> >
> > --- Evan Reese <mentat1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> >> You'll find lots of them in the middle of
> sentences
> >> in The Book of Lost
> >> Tales, Parts One and Two, and in J. R. R.
> Tolkien's
> >> Sanctifying Myth by
> >> Bradley J. Birzer. In these books you will also
> find
> >> multiple note numbers
> >> in one sentence: In the Book of Lost Tales Part
> Two,
> >> for instance, you'll
> >> find two in one sentence on page 71, and again on
> >> page 145. I did not check
> >> the whole book. In the Birzer, you will see two
> note
> >> numbers per sentence on
> >> pages 31, 62 and 85. Once again, I did not check
> the
> >> whole book.
> >>
> >> But I think that's enough to show that moving
> note
> >> numbers in the middle of
> >> a sentence to the end will probably lead to
> problems
> >> - of ambiguity of what
> >> was meant if nothing else, especially when there
> is
> >> more than one per
> >> sentence. Besides, I think on the general
> principle
> >> of trying to maintain
> >> the integrity of the original as far as possible,
> >> they should be left where
> >> they were intended.
> >>
> >> Evan
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Grandma Cindy" <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
> >> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 6:56 PM
> >> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] footnote number
> locations
> >>
> >>
> >> > In the books I've seen, the footnote numbers
> are
> >> at
> >> > the ends of the sentences that contain the
> >> quotation
> >> > or the specific information that the author
> wants
> >> to
> >> > identify, and often at the end of the last
> >> sentence in
> >> > the paragraph. I don't remember ever seeing a
> >> footnote
> >> > in the middle, except, perhaps, in Kipling's
> >> poems,
> >> > but maybe I just happened on books with the
> other
> >> > kind. smile
> >> >
> >> > Cindy
> >> >
> >> > --- Evan Reese <mentat1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> I wouldn't put the footnote number at the end
> of
> >> the
> >> >> sentence because the
> >> >> footnote number is associated with the word
> that
> >> it
> >> >> is printed next to.
> >> >> Besides, you could have more than one footnote
> >> >> number in a single sentence.
> >> >> Then what?
> >> >>
> >> >> Evan
> >> >>
> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> From: "Grandma Cindy" <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
> >> >> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >> Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 6:21 PM
> >> >> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: superscript and
> >> >> subscript
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> >I have done that at times, but then at some
> >> point
> >> >> some
> >> >> > readers said that it was too difficult to
> read
> >> and
> >> >> > could be just put the footnote number at the
> >> end
> >> >> of
> >> >> > the sentence without parentheses. Perhaps
> >> that's
> >> >> > something that should be added to the manual
> if
> >> it
> >> >> > isn't already there.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I just checked the copy I downloaded and it
> >> isn't,
> >> >> so
> >> >> > I'll write to Lisa. I don't see it in Tips
> on
> >> >> Jake's
> >> >> > site, either.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Cindy
> >> >> >
> >> >> > --- Evan Reese <mentat1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> I am looking into what the Braille
> translator
> >> >> does
> >> >> >> with them directly. The
> >> >> >> one instance I found in a book I submitted
> >> came
> >> >> out
> >> >> >> rather strangely,
> >> >> >> although it is still recognizable as a
> >> >> superscript.
> >> >> >> For Braille readers, it
> >> >> >> says: and-sign sup-number sign 2, followed
> >> >> >> immediately by the number 20 in
> >> >> >> Nemeth code. But someone with whom I often
> >> work
> >> >> says
> >> >> >> that she adds
> >> >> >> superscripts regularly for notes, so it
> looks
> >> as
> >> >> it
> >> >> >> does in the print book.
> >> >> >> We're going to try to look at some examples
> >> today
> >> >> if
> >> >> >> possible and see what
> >> >> >> they look like in the brf versions. I have
> >> been
> >> >> >> simply going on what I have
> >> >> >> read here, so I want to find out directly.
> >> That
> >> >> one
> >> >> >> example is not enough to
> >> >> >> go on.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> I'll report back today or tomorrow on what
> I
> >> have
> >> >> >> found.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Evan
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> >> From: "Grandma Cindy"
> <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
> >> >> >> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >> >> Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 12:20 AM
> >> >> >> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: superscript
> and
> >> >> >> subscript
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> > Good idea!! I hope I remember it, because
> >> it's
> >> >> >> much
> >> >> >> > easier to do that then fix them one at a
> >> rime
> >> >> as
> >> >> >> I've
> >> >> >> > been doing. smile Thanks, Evan.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Cindy
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > P.S. I'll bet that will also work for
> raised
> >> >> and
> >> >> >> > lowered letters that I've been putting
> back
> >> to
> >> >> >> normal
> >> >> >> > one incident at a time.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > --- Evan Reese <mentat1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> wrote:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> Another thing I just thought of is that
> she
> >> >> could
> >> >> >> >> select the whole text and
> >> >> >> >> if any of the text is super- or
> >> subscripted,
> >> >> it
> >> >> >> will
> >> >> >> >> say so in the Font
> >> >> >> >> dialogue box in Word. Then she can just
> >> >> uncheck
> >> >> >> >> either or both of them and
> >> >> >> >> desuperscript and desubscript
> everything.
> >> They
> >> >> >> >> should be removed because the
> >> >> >> >> Braille translator does not handle them
> >> well,
> >> >> if
> >> >> >> at
> >> >> >> >> all. I forget what
> >> >> >> >> happens exactly, but they will
> definitely
> >> not
> >> >> >> appear
> >> >> >> >> as they should in the
> >> >> >> >> Braille version. I can't speak to the
> Daisy
> >> >> >> version.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> Evan
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> >> >> From: "Grandma Cindy"
> >> <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
> >> >> >> >> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >> >> >> Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 12:16
> PM
> >> >> >> >> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re:
> superscript
> >> and
> >> >> >> >> subscript
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> > Monica,
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > I'm curious as to how superscript
> reads
> >> in
> >> >> >> Jaws.
> >> >> >> >> In
> >> >> >> >> > the sentence in the page Terra sent me
> to
> >> >> look
> >> >> >> at,
> >> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> >> > letters e a r in the word year were in
> >> >> >> subscript,
> >> >> >> >> > i.e., small and raised above the line,
> as
> >> >> >> >> footnotes
> >> >> >> >> > often are in books. People have
> written
> >> here
> >> >> >> that
> >> >> >> >> they
> >> >> >> >> > prefer to have footnote numbers
> written
> >> on
> >> >> the
> >> >> >> >> line
> >> >> >> >> > after the period in the sentence, and
> >> >> without
> >> >> >> >> > parentheses (all this detail for
> newbies)
> >> so
> >> >> I
> >> >> >> >> assume
> >> >> >> >> > that superscript numbers are read
> >> >> differently
> >> >> >> in
> >> >> >> >> Jaws
> >> >> >> >> > or braille or both. How would parts of
> a
> >> >> word
> >> >> >> >> read?
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > I will say, for Terra, she's
> persistent
> >> and
> >> >> >> >> > courageous. This is only her second
> >> >> validation
> >> >> >> >> effort,
> >> >> >> >> > and based on the page she sent me,
> there
> >> are
> >> >> >> lots
> >> >> >> >> of
> >> >> >> >> > different kinds of problems. She's
> going
> >> to
> >> >> >> learn
> >> >> >> >> a
> >> >> >> >> > lot from this one book. smile
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > Cindy
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > Cindy
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > --- Monica Willyard <rhyami@xxxxxxxxx>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >> Hi, Terra. Now that's a question I've
> >> never
> >> >> >> been
> >> >> >> >> >> asked. I don't have a
> >> >> >> >> >> clue, and I'm not sure it matters in
> the
> >> >> final
> >> >> >> >> >> product since a lot of
> >> >> >> >> >> extra formatting is stripped out. For
> >> >> example,
> >> >> >> >> all
> >> >> >> >> >> tabs are removed. I
> >> >> >> >> >> know they keep the bold text
> attribute,
> >> but
> >> >> I
> >> >> >> >> have
> >> >> >> >> >> no idea what they do
> >> >> >> >> >> with things like fonts or italics in
> >> text.
> >> >> I
> >> >> >> just
> >> >> >> >> >> proofread the document
> >> >> >> >> >> for accuracy and let the Bookshare
> tools
> >> >> sort
> >> >> >> out
> >> >> >> >> >> things like fonts
> >> >> >> >> >> unless the book is in a giant font
> that
> >> >> Jaws
> >> >> >> >> can't
> >> >> >> >> >> read. Then I select
> >> >> >> >> >> all text and adjust it to 16 point
> Times
> >> >> New
> >> >> >> >> Roman
> >> >> >> >> >> and keep moving. Jaws
> >> >> >> >> >> can't read text in a font size of
> >> somewhere
> >> >> >> >> around
> >> >> >> >> >> 32 or larger, so that
> >> >> >> >> >> forces me to adjust the font size.
> Other
> >> >> than
> >> >> >> >> that,
> >> >> >> >> >> I figure I have
> >> >> >> >> >> enough trouble proofreading the text
> >> >> without
> >> >> >> >> trying
> >> >> >> >> >> to sort out how the
> >> >> >> >> >> text appears on the screen. Maybe
> >> someone
> >> >> else
> >> >> >> >> here
> >> >> >> >> >> has a better idea of
> >> >> >> >> >> how to help you.
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >> Monica Willyard
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >> Terra Syslo wrote:
> >> >> >> >> >> > Does anyone know how to tell in
> jaws
> >> with
> >> >> >> word
> >> >> >> >> if
> >> >> >> >> >> something is superscript
> >> >> >> >> >> > or subscript and how to take that
> out?
> >> >> Sorry
> >> >> >> >> for
> >> >> >> >> >> all the questions, I just
> >> >> >> >> >> > want to make sure I'm getting
> >> everything
> >> >> >> right
> >> >> >> >> >> with this book.
> >> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >> > email and MSN: tlsyslo@xxxxxxxxx
> >> >> >> >> >> > skype: tlsyslo
> >> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >> > No virus found in this outgoing
> >> message.
> >> >> >> >> >> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >> >> >> >> >> > Version: 7.5.487 / Virus Database:
> >> >> >> >> 269.13.19/1008
> >> >> >> >> >> - Release Date: 9/14/2007
> >> >> >> >> >> > 8:59 AM
> >> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >> > To unsubscribe from this list send
> a
> >> >> blank
> >> >> >> >> Email
> >> >> >> >> >> to
> >> >> >> >> >> >
> bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> >> >> >> > put the word 'unsubscribe' by
> itself
> >> in
> >> >> the
> >> >> >> >> >> subject line. To get a list of
> >> available
> >> >> >> >> commands,
> >> >> >> >> >> put the word 'help' by itself in the
> >> >> subject
> >> >> >> >> line.
> >> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >
>
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> >
>
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