Dear Lissi,
I think Pratik was referring to the em dashes in the
middle of sentences. The ones you have, used instead
of quotation marks, possibly are different. There was
one book I did that had the same thing, but I can't
remember what it was. I think it was English and
older--maybe an Agatha Christie.
Cindy
--- Estelnalissi <airadil@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Dear Pratik,
How could you! Tell it to the scanning machines. I
checked my file and all
of the m dashes before quoted words have spaces
after them. I'm not starting
over again, but I'll delete the spaces for the rest
of the book. On the good
side, there are no spaces between the last word of a
quote and the m dash on
the few times it's used. I haven't checked any
midsentence m dashes, but
when I encounter them I'll know where the spaces go.
Out!
I've read and commented on this list more than
enough for today. If I stop
checking I may actually go forward from page 62!
hahaha
Always with love,
Lissi.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pratik patel" <pratikp1@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 7:38 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: M dash, how to make
it?
> Cindy,
>
> You're right. There supposed to be no space
between the word and the em
> dash character. Proper grammar dictates that the
em dash (or long dash)
> character immediately follow a word or immediately
precede one.
>
> Pratik
>
>
>
> Pratik Patel
> Director, CUNY Assistive technology Services
(CATS)
> The City University of New York
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Cindy
> Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 6:46 PM
> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: M dash, how to make
it?
>
> Hmmm. Sorry, but in the print books I've worked
on,
> including the one I'm working on now, there are no
> spaces between the em dash and the words. In some
of
> the scans i've valdiated there have been, but it's
> been hard to tell of those were em dashes or
hhyphens.
> As Lissi says, it's hard to see the difference,
even
> with sight.
> I have four solid three-dimensional books sitting
on
> my desk, and not one of them has spaces on either
side
> of the em dash. smile
>
> Cindy
>
> --- Evan Reese <mentat1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> I just realized that I was wrong about one thing:
I
>> do know what the
>> Braille translator does with them. I am
>> concentrating on finals right now,
>> and I had forgotten that I did look at one book -
>> excellently scanned, but
>> where in the print text you would see a space m
dash
>> space such as
>> conventionally used for putting in an aside in
the
>> middle of a sentence, the
>> brf file just has a hyphen with no spaces between
>> the words. Apparently,
>> noone replaced them and that is what happens. I
>> just add in the extra dash
>> as I read along so it looks the way it should.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Evan Reese" <mentat1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 12:35 PM
>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: M dash, how to make
>> it?
>>
>>
>> >I don't know what the Braille translator does
with
>> them. As I recall, it
>> >either doesn't display them properly, or it only
>> puts in one dash instead
>> >of two, which is what you should have in the
>> Braille file. I do know that
>> >in books I scan and read as rtf files, they are
not
>> properly displayed on
>> >my Pac Mate. I generally convert them to double
>> dashes with a quick search
>> >and replace all in Word before sending them up
to
>> Bookshare.
>> >
>> > I'm not changing that. I don't see why Braille
>> readers should have to
>> > suffer through crummy-looking text because
someday
>> some future software
>> > upgrade just might fix the problem - assuming
>> there is one.
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Scott Blanks" <scottsjb@xxxxxxxxx>
>> > To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> > Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 11:31 AM
>> > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: M dash, how to
make
>> it?
>> >
>> >
>> >> I'm curious though, which comes out better in
>> braille: m dash, or double
>> >> dash? Does it matter? I seem to specifically
>> remember several people on
>> >> this list encouraging the conversion of m
dashes
>> to double dashes for the
>> >> benefit of braille readers.
>> >>
>> >> Can anybody comment?
>> >>
>> >> Scott
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "Pratik patel" <pratikp1@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >> Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 10:39 AM
>> >> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: M dash, how to
make
>> it?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> Cindy,
>> >>>
>> >>> Please stick with the M-dash character when
you
>> enter it. The automated
>> >>> tools may not support the proper conversion,
>> but, we have to make sure
>> >>> that
>> >>> future versions of those tools do support
such
>> conversions. The em-dash
>> >>> character is a slightly shorter character
than
>> the double dash (--). I
>> >>> know
>> >>> we have been working with the formatting to
>> satisfy the stripper
>> >>> requirement; but we should try to take a
>> conservative approach when
>> >>> editting
>> >>> the original text especially when it comes to
>> formatting. In some
>> >>> cases, we
>> >>> might have to move words around or make
slight
>> font changes but we
>> >>> should
>> >>> avoid making other changes.
>> >>>
>> >>> Pratik
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Pratik Patel
>> >>> Director, CUNY Assistive technology Services
>> (CATS)
>> >>> The City University of New York
>> >>> pratikp1@xxxxxxxxx
>> >>>
>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>> From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >>> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On
>> Behalf Of Cindy
>> >>> Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 12:55 AM
>> >>> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: M dash, how to
>> make it?
>> >>>
>> >>> Is Lissi right in what she says about two
dashes
>> >>> instead of an em dash being easier to read in
>> braile?
>> >>> What about with Daisy? What should I be
doing,
>> em dash
>> >>> or double dash?
>> >>>
>> >>> Cindy
>> >>>
>> >>> --- Estelnalissi <airadil@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Dear Jake,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Your directions worked perfectly! I'm
>> levitating! We
>> >>>> all know I'm not the
>> >>>> fastest barge on the canal when it comes to
>> >>>> computers, but your instructions
>> >>>> put those m dashes exactly where I needed
them.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The M dash will be especially easy to
remember
>> >>>> because it's insert 4 as you
>> >>>> said for jaws, and then tapping e 4 times to
>> reach m
>> >>>> dash and enter not even
>> >>>> having to go to OK!
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Also exciting is the fact I saw a slew of
items
>> >>>> listed in the insert 4
>> >>>> dialogue box which may turn out to be
useful!!
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The book I'm working on is an Irish memoir.
>> Instead
>> >>>> of using quotes or
>> >>>> apostrophes, there's a dash or m dash before
>> all
>> >>>> quotes and no mark to show
>> >>>> the end of the quote. It's plain in print
>> because
>> >>>> quotes are inserted
>> >>>> farther than the narrative, but I think
braille
>> >>>> readers will quickly catch
>> >>>> the pattern.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> While blissfully making my corrections with
the
>> new
>> >>>> command, I noticed that
>> >>>> the scanner read these unique indications of
>> quotes
>> >>>> as dash about half of
>> >>>> the time and M dash the other half with some
>> minus
>> >>>> signs thrown in for
>> >>>> variety. The mixture was random so I made a
>> command
>> >>>> decision to use the
>> >>>> simpler dash to indicate quotes. I'm on page
27
>> now
>> >>>> and all quotes are
>> >>>> uniformly indicated with a single dash,
easier
>> for
>> >>>> me and the reader.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> By the way, when this book is approved, I'm
>> going to
>> >>>> mention that while
>> >>>> anyone interested in quirky humor, Irish
>> culture and
>> >>>> recalling life from
>> >>>> 1959 through 1960 something will like this
>> book, but
>> >>>> the POV, and the
>> >>>> father, a kind of hero to the author will
>> really
>> >>>> appeal to the gritty guys
>> >>>> among the members. I'm entranced, but
regularly
>> >>>> amused in spite of myself
>> >>>> and grossed out, too.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Always with love,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Lissi
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Thanks for helping me to enjoy another break
>> >>>> through!
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>> From: "Jake Brownell" <jabrown@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >>>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >>>> Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 6:52 PM
>> >>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: M dash, how to
>> make
>> >>>> it?
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> > Hi Lissi,
>> >>>> > There are two easy ways to insert an
>> em-dash
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > If you're using Microsoft Word, you can
press
>> >>>> CTRL+ALT+the minus sign on
>> >>>> > the numpad.
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > If you're using JAWS, you can press
INSERT+4
>> (the
>> >>>> 4 on the regular
>> >>>> > keyboard) and you'll get a list of
symbols.
>> Press
>> >>>> the letter e a few times
>> >>>> > and you'll find em dash, then press enter.
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > That's all there is to it.
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > Jake
>> >>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>> > From: "Estelnalissi"
<airadil@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >>>> > To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >>>> > Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 5:16 PM
>> >>>> > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] M dash, how to
make
>> it?
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >> Dear Volunteer Friends,
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >> There was a discussion here about making
>> that
>> >>>> long dash called m dash by
>> >>>> >> Jaws using microsoft word while
validating
>> an RTF
>> >>>> file. How to make it
>> >>>> >> with other programs might have been
>> mentioned,
>> >>>> too.
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >> What I mostly remember is that it was
>> suggested
>> >>>> that just using 2 dashes
>> >>>> >> comes out better for the braille reader
in
>> >>>> Bookshare's BRF file of a
>> >>>> >> book. So, I decided that when I had a
>> choice, I'd
>> >>>> use 2 dashes.
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >> However, the book I'm validating is
already
>> >>>> packed with m dashes, so if I
>> >>>> >> fix one, I thought it should match them.
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >> How do I make an m dash? Occasionally
jaws
>> calls
>> >>>> an m dash a minus, and I
>> >>>> >> want to replace the minus signs with m
>> dashes. If
>> >>>> anyone can point me to
>> >>>> >> the answer or remind me how to do this,
I'd
>> >>>> appreciate it and save the
>> >>>> >> information in my Bookshare Tips file.
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >> While I wait to hear about this, I'll
mark
>> the
>> >>>> spot and go on. I'm only
>> >>>> >> on page 12, but this book really
motivates
>> me to
>> >>>> make good progress.
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >> Hope all of your current endeavors are
going
>> >>>> swimmingly. - Smile
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >> Always with love,
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >> Lissi
>> >>>> >> To unsubscribe from this list send a
blank
>> Email
>> >>>> to
>> >>>> >> bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >>>> >> put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in
the
>> >>>> subject line. To get a list
>> >>>> >> of available commands, put the word
'help'
>> by
>> >>>> itself in the subject line.
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >> --
>> >>>> >> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> >>>> >> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> >>>> >> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database:
>> 268.8.1/354 -
>> >>>> Release Date: 6/1/2006
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>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>>
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