[bksvol-discuss] Re: comment on Protecting page numbers and chapter headings
- From: "Silvara" <silvara@xxxxxxx>
- To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 14 May 2006 22:09:14 -0400
Hi Gerald:
Thanks for replying. All right. Just so you know the last couple hundred books
I've validated have no blank line between the page break and page number.
***
Grace
For scanning and validating tips
check out
http://www.jbrownell.com/bks/tl.asp
For ideas of books to scan check out:
the No Book Left Behind AKA
Reject list
http://www.jbrownell.com/bks/reject.asp
Rescan List
http://www.jbrownell.com/bks/rescan.asp
----- Original Message -----
From: Gerald Hovas
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2006 9:58 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: comment on Protecting page numbers and chapter
headings
Grace,
I think the operative word here is impression. Others have stated that the
header MUST be the first line and the footer the last, but that isn't what the
instructions state, and it isn't what I have found to be true. The
instructions do not say that the header must be the first line, they say that
they should be the first paragraph. They also say that the footer should be
the last paragraph, not the last line. The Stripper doesn't seem to have a
problem with either since the header will be the first paragraph and the footer
the last no matter if blank lines are included or not.
The reason why I recommend placing a blank line at the top and bottom of the
page has to do with the quality of the HTML file, and possibly the BRF file.
In both instances, the page numbers are added back to the file after being
stripped for the DAISY book. I'm not a Braille user, so I can't say what
affect the blank lines have on the BRF file, but I have tried both ways and
noticed a problem with the HTML file when they aren't included. When they're
included, the page numbers in the HTML file are separated from the text by a
blank line, when they aren't included, then the page numbers appear on the same
line as part of the text, either at the beginning of the first paragraph of
text or at the end of the last paragraph of text.
I've spoken to Engineering about the problem which occurs when the blank
lines are left out and asked them to fix it.
Since as I said, it doesn't seem to matter to the Stripper, I personally
think it's better to include them for now so that the HTML files look better.
HTH
Gerald
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Silvara
Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2006 7:12 PM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: comment on Protecting page numbers and chapter
headings
Hi:
Just a slight comment on page numbers. I was under the impression that there
should not be a blank line between the page break and the page number. Meaning
the that the page number should be the first item on the page followed by a
blank line and then the text. Has this changed?
As for footers which is page numbers at the bottom of the page I believe it's
suppose to be text, followed by a blank line, page number, and blank line and
then page break. This is what I have been doing with both validations and
submissions. I strip all headers and just leave in page numbers.
If anyone is interested in protecting chapter headers I posted a tip on
Jake's site. Please let me know if it's clear enough. Or I should add examples
to clarify my point. I feel that it is really important to protect chapter
titles so please let me know if I can help.
***
Grace
For scanning and validating tips
check out
http://www.jbrownell.com/bks/tl.asp
For ideas of books to scan check out:
the No Book Left Behind AKA
Reject list
http://www.jbrownell.com/bks/reject.asp
Rescan List
http://www.jbrownell.com/bks/rescan.asp
----- Original Message -----
From: Donna Smith
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 1:17 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Protecting page numbers and chapter headings
Thanks Gerald. This is great. Now I can go forth and make good scans for
all. <smile>
Peace and Hope,
Donna
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Gerald Hovas
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 9:35 AM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Protecting page numbers and chapter headings
Donna,
1. The page numbers are what the Stripper is looking for. That's it's
primary job, to recognize and process page numbers. Stripping the text that it
finds along with them was just something that the Engineer decided to throw in
for a bonus. The page numbers are stripped and stored in the SMIL file
according to the DAISY specification. DAISY readers use this information to
navigate through the book. The page numbers are put back in the BRF and HTML
files when those files are created.
2. Sorry about the periods. They're just a kind of vertical ellipses to
signify that something's there. Just a way to make the text part take up more
room. Ignore them.
HTH
Gerald
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Donna Smith
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 8:20 AM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Protecting page numbers and chapter headings
Gerald, this is great information.
Two more questions if you don't mind.
1.. So if I manually strip all headers, put a blank line then the page
number and then another blank line, the BookShare stripper won't then strip the
page number as the closest thing resembling a header?
2.. I hope I'm not just being too obtuse, but in your examples, do you
mean that I should put in the three lines with a period separated by a blank
line? What's the purpose of this?
Thanks.
Donna
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From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Gerald Hovas
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 7:19 PM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Protecting page numbers and chapter headings
Donna,
1.. Yes, put a blank line before and after the page number when the page
number is in the header as well as a blank line at the bottom of the page. I'm
not sure if the blank line is necessary between the page number and the text,
but I can say that putting one after the header does work well. If you leave
the blank lines at the top and bottom of the pages off, then some odd things
will happen to the page numbers when the HTML file is created. The page
numbers end up as part of a paragraph instead of on a separate line.
Example of how the page should look...
[Page Break]
95
.
.
.
text
.
.
.
[Page Break]
2.. Yes, put a blank line between the chapter heading and the first line
of text. Again, I don't know that this is necessary, but it does work well,
and some people have said that it is necessary.
3. Yes, you need to give the Stripper something to strip other than the
chapter heading or the chapter heading will be stripped. The easiest thing to
do when page numbers are normally at the top of pages except on pages where a
chapter begins is to move the page number from the bottom of the page to the
top. If page numbers are always at the bottom of the page, then place a false
header above the chapter heading. Using the title works well, and it won't
look as odd if the Stripper fails to strip it for some odd reason. It helps to
strip all of the real headers manually since its easier to strip them yourself
than to insure that they are consistent so that the Stripper will remove them
all, but if you do leave them in, then just follow the pattern of the headers
and put whatever header would normally appear on the top of that page above the
chapter heading.
Examples of how pages should look...
[Page Break]
95
Chapter Seven
.
.
.
text
.
.
.
[Page Break]
[Page Break]
The Firm
Chapter Seven
.
.
.
text
.
.
.
95
[Page Break]
Or if the page would normally contain the author's name instead of the
title...
[Page Break]
John Grisham
Chapter Seven
.
.
.
text
.
.
.
[Page Break]
I can't say that these are the only ways to do it, but I've had excellent
results with these approaches.
HTH
Gerald
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Donna Smith
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 5:41 PM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Protecting page numbers and chapter headings
Hi all.
I hesitate to ask this question, but I can't find the answer on any of the
official or unofficial sites giving tips to scanners.
Did we ever determine absolutely what should be done to protect page
numbers and chapter headings? What I want to know is:
1.. At the top of each page, do I need to put a blank line before and/or
after the page number?
2.. For chapter numbers/titles that appear at the top of the page, do I
put a blank line before and/or after it?
3.. Is it necessary to have something at the top of the page for the
BookShare stripper to strip?
I spend a good bit of time cleaning up each scan regarding page numbers,
chapter headings and stripping out unwanted headers. I'm trying to do it in
such a way that it will result in the best book in the finished product.
I really, really hope that an answer has been found to this question and
that I'm not opening up the can of worms we've had before about the different
perceptions of what might work. <smile>
Thanks.
Peace and Hope,
Donna
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