[bksvol-discuss] Re: comment on Protecting page numbers and chapter headings

  • From: "Pratik patel" <pratikp1@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 15:26:27 -0400

Evan,
 
Thank you.  I'll include that book as one of the test cases.
 
Pratik
 
 

  _____  

From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Pratik patel
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 1:13 AM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: comment on Protecting page numbers and chapter
headings


I'll certainly check that one.  I'd rather have more titles to compare
though.  So, folks, please send me more titles that might have this problem.
 
Pratik
 
 

  _____  

From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jill O'Connell
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 6:09 PM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: comment on Protecting page numbers and chapter
headings


If you don't hear from someone else, if memory serves I believe that Cane
River was one such book. 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Pratik Patel <mailto:pratikp1@xxxxxxxxx>  
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 10:34 AM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: comment on Protecting page numbers and chapter
headings

if someone might please give me possible titles, I will check on this
problem and report back.
 
Pratik
 
 

  _____  

From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Gerald Hovas
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 12:27 PM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: comment on Protecting page numbers and chapter
headings



Thanks for the info.  As I said, I'm not really a Braille user, and it's
been 20 years since I did any Braille translation using Duxbury, so I
haven't tried downloading any of the books to see what the format of the
files look like.

 

BTW, it's likely that there wouldn't be any problem with the page numbers in
the BRF books due to the recent upgrade to support print page numbers.
Although from what Jill said, it sounds like a bug may have sneaked in
related to repeated lines when they did the work on it at the end of last
year.

 

Gerald

 


  _____  


From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Evan Reese
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 5:02 AM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: comment on Protecting page numbers and chapter
headings

 

As far as blank lines in brf files go, from the half-dozen books I have
downloaded so far, it appears that they have all been eliminated.  I
downloaded a couple I submitted or validated to see what they would look
like, so I know where I put them in - after page numbers, and they are all
munched.  I would imagine that if there were no blank line between page
numbers and the first paragraph, the brf file would still look the same - as
long as there is a hard return between the two.  But if what Gerald says is
true, then it is better to put them in than leave them out, even though the
brf file would probably still look the same.  I could be wrong about the brf
file looking the same, though, as I don't really know from the inside what
that stripper is programmed to do with page breaks followed by page numbers,
but it appears that the brf files I have seen are solely governed by the
presence or absence of hard returns, and if so it wouldn't matter if the
blank lines were there or not, so long as the hard return is there.

 

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Gerald  <mailto:GeraldHovas@xxxxxxxxxxx> Hovas 

To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 

Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2006 6:58 PM

Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: comment on Protecting page numbers and chapter
headings

 

Grace,

 

I think the operative word here is impression.  Others have stated that the
header MUST be the first line and the footer the last, but that isn't what
the instructions state, and it isn't what I have found to be true.  The
instructions do not say that the header must be the first line, they say
that they should be the first paragraph.  They also say that the footer
should be the last paragraph, not the last line.  The Stripper doesn't seem
to have a problem with either since the header will be the first paragraph
and the footer the last no matter if blank lines are included or not.

 

The reason why I recommend placing a blank line at the top and bottom of the
page has to do with the quality of the HTML file, and possibly the BRF file.
In both instances, the page numbers are added back to the file after being
stripped for the DAISY book.  I'm not a Braille user, so I can't say what
affect the blank lines have on the BRF file, but I have tried both ways and
noticed a problem with the HTML file when they aren't included.  When
they're included, the page numbers in the HTML file are separated from the
text by a blank line, when they aren't included, then the page numbers
appear on the same line as part of the text, either at the beginning of the
first paragraph of text or at the end of the last paragraph of text.

 

I've spoken to Engineering about the problem which occurs when the blank
lines are left out and asked them to fix it.

 

Since as I said, it doesn't seem to matter to the Stripper, I personally
think it's better to include them for now so that the HTML files look
better.

 

HTH

 

Gerald

 


  _____  


From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Silvara
Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2006 7:12 PM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: comment on Protecting page numbers and chapter
headings

 

Hi:

 

Just a slight comment on page numbers. I was under the impression that there
should not be a blank line between the page break and the page number.
Meaning the that the page number should be the first item on the page
followed by a blank line and then the text. Has this changed?

 

As for footers which is page numbers at the bottom of the page I believe
it's suppose to be text, followed by a blank line, page number, and blank
line and then page break. This is what I have been doing with both
validations and submissions. I strip all headers and just leave in page
numbers.  

 

    If anyone is interested in protecting chapter headers I posted a tip on
Jake's site. Please let me know if it's clear enough. Or I should add
examples to clarify my point. I feel that it is really important to protect
chapter titles so please let me know if I can help.

 

***
Grace

 

For scanning and validating  tips 
check out 
http://www.jbrownell.com/bks/tl.asp 

 

For ideas of books to scan check out:
the No Book Left Behind AKA 
Reject list 
http://www.jbrownell.com/bks/reject.asp
Rescan List
http://www.jbrownell.com/bks/rescan.asp   

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Donna  <mailto:donnafsmith@xxxxxxxxxxx> Smith 

To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 

Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 1:17 PM

Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Protecting page numbers and chapter headings

 

Thanks Gerald.  This is great.  Now I can go forth and make good scans for
all.  <smile>

 

Peace and Hope,

 

Donna

 


  _____  


From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Gerald Hovas
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 9:35 AM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Protecting page numbers and chapter headings

 

Donna,

 

1. The page numbers are what the Stripper is looking for.  That's it's
primary job, to recognize and process page numbers.  Stripping the text that
it finds along with them was just something that the Engineer decided to
throw in for a bonus.  The page numbers are stripped and stored in the SMIL
file according to the DAISY specification.  DAISY readers use this
information to navigate through the book.  The page numbers are put back in
the BRF and HTML files when those files are created.

 

2. Sorry about the periods.  They're just a kind of vertical ellipses to
signify that something's there.  Just a way to make the text part take up
more room.  Ignore them.

 

HTH

 

Gerald

 


  _____  


From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Donna Smith
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 8:20 AM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Protecting page numbers and chapter headings

 

Gerald, this is great information.

 

Two more questions if you don't mind.

 

1.      So if I manually strip all headers, put a blank line then the page
number and then another blank line, the BookShare stripper won't then strip
the page number as the closest thing resembling a header? 

2.      I hope I'm not just being too obtuse, but in your examples, do you
mean that I should put in the three lines with a period separated by a blank
line?  What's the purpose of this? 

 

Thanks.

 

Donna

 


  _____  


From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Gerald Hovas
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 7:19 PM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Protecting page numbers and chapter headings

 

Donna,

 

1.      Yes, put a blank line before and after the page number when the page
number is in the header as well as a blank line at the bottom of the page.
I'm not sure if the blank line is necessary between the page number and the
text, but I can say that putting one after the header does work well.  If
you leave the blank lines at the top and bottom of the pages off, then some
odd things will happen to the page numbers when the HTML file is created.
The page numbers end up as part of a paragraph instead of on a separate
line. 

 

Example of how the page should look...

 

[Page Break]

 

95

 

.

.

.

text

.

.

.

 

[Page Break]

 

2.      Yes, put a blank line between the chapter heading and the first line
of text.  Again, I don't know that this is necessary, but it does work well,
and some people have said that it is necessary. 

 

3. Yes, you need to give the Stripper something to strip other than the
chapter heading or the chapter heading will be stripped.  The easiest thing
to do when page numbers are normally at the top of pages except on pages
where a chapter begins is to move the page number from the bottom of the
page to the top.  If page numbers are always at the bottom of the page, then
place a false header above the chapter heading.  Using the title works well,
and it won't look as odd if the Stripper fails to strip it for some odd
reason.  It helps to strip all of the real headers manually since its easier
to strip them yourself than to insure that they are consistent so that the
Stripper will remove them all, but if you do leave them in, then just follow
the pattern of the headers and put whatever header would normally appear on
the top of that page above the chapter heading.

 

Examples of how pages should look...

 

[Page Break]

 

95

 

Chapter Seven

 

.

.

.

text

.

.

.

 

[Page Break]

 

[Page Break]

 

The Firm

 

Chapter Seven

 

.

.

.

text

.

.

.

 

95

 

[Page Break]

 

Or if the page would normally contain the author's name instead of the
title...

 

[Page Break]

 

John Grisham

 

Chapter Seven

 

.

.

.

text

.

.

.

 

[Page Break]

 

I can't say that these are the only ways to do it, but I've had excellent
results with these approaches.

 

HTH

 

Gerald

 


  _____  


From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Donna Smith
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 5:41 PM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Protecting page numbers and chapter headings

 

Hi all.

 

I hesitate to ask this question, but I can't find the answer on any of the
official or unofficial sites giving tips to scanners.

 

Did we ever determine absolutely what should be done to protect page numbers
and chapter headings?  What I want to know is:

 

1.      At the top of each page, do I need to put a blank line before and/or
after the page number? 

2.      For chapter numbers/titles that appear at the top of the page, do I
put a blank line before and/or after it? 

3.      Is it necessary to have something at the top of the page for the
BookShare stripper to strip? 

 

I spend a good bit of time cleaning up each scan regarding page numbers,
chapter headings and stripping out unwanted headers.  I'm trying to do it in
such a way that it will result in the best book in the finished product.

 

I really, really hope that an answer has been found to this question and
that I'm not opening up the can of worms we've had before about the
different perceptions of what might work.  <smile>

 

Thanks.

 

Peace and Hope,

 

Donna



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