[bksvol-discuss] Re: comment on Protecting page numbers and chapter headings
- From: "Evan Reese" <mentat1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 11:29:47 -0700
Well, you could try "Schismatrix Plus" by Bruce Sterling. The copy I have has
the title at the top, then the author's name, then five more repetitions of the
title before the legal notices - just as the other example I gave did.
I submitted this book, and I'm quite sure - especially as I have the original
.rtf file I submitted - that the title isn't repeated six times in the
original, only twice; once on a title page, and a second time immediately
afterword on a page containing the title and author's name. How the extra four
got in there I have no idea.
----- Original Message -----
From: Pratik patel
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 10:12 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: comment on Protecting page numbers and chapter
headings
I'll certainly check that one. I'd rather have more titles to compare
though. So, folks, please send me more titles that might have this problem.
Pratik
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From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jill O'Connell
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 6:09 PM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: comment on Protecting page numbers and chapter
headings
If you don't hear from someone else, if memory serves I believe that Cane
River was one such book.
----- Original Message -----
From: Pratik Patel
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 10:34 AM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: comment on Protecting page numbers and
chapter headings
if someone might please give me possible titles, I will check on this
problem and report back.
Pratik
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From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Gerald Hovas
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 12:27 PM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: comment on Protecting page numbers and
chapter headings
Thanks for the info. As I said, I'm not really a Braille user, and it's
been 20 years since I did any Braille translation using Duxbury, so I haven't
tried downloading any of the books to see what the format of the files look
like.
BTW, it's likely that there wouldn't be any problem with the page numbers
in the BRF books due to the recent upgrade to support print page numbers.
Although from what Jill said, it sounds like a bug may have sneaked in related
to repeated lines when they did the work on it at the end of last year.
Gerald
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From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Evan Reese
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 5:02 AM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: comment on Protecting page numbers and
chapter headings
As far as blank lines in brf files go, from the half-dozen books I have
downloaded so far, it appears that they have all been eliminated. I downloaded
a couple I submitted or validated to see what they would look like, so I know
where I put them in - after page numbers, and they are all munched. I would
imagine that if there were no blank line between page numbers and the first
paragraph, the brf file would still look the same - as long as there is a hard
return between the two. But if what Gerald says is true, then it is better to
put them in than leave them out, even though the brf file would probably still
look the same. I could be wrong about the brf file looking the same, though,
as I don't really know from the inside what that stripper is programmed to do
with page breaks followed by page numbers, but it appears that the brf files I
have seen are solely governed by the presence or absence of hard returns, and
if so it wouldn't matter if the blank lines were there or not, so long as the
hard return is there.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gerald Hovas
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2006 6:58 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: comment on Protecting page numbers and
chapter headings
Grace,
I think the operative word here is impression. Others have stated that
the header MUST be the first line and the footer the last, but that isn't what
the instructions state, and it isn't what I have found to be true. The
instructions do not say that the header must be the first line, they say that
they should be the first paragraph. They also say that the footer should be
the last paragraph, not the last line. The Stripper doesn't seem to have a
problem with either since the header will be the first paragraph and the footer
the last no matter if blank lines are included or not.
The reason why I recommend placing a blank line at the top and bottom of
the page has to do with the quality of the HTML file, and possibly the BRF
file. In both instances, the page numbers are added back to the file after
being stripped for the DAISY book. I'm not a Braille user, so I can't say what
affect the blank lines have on the BRF file, but I have tried both ways and
noticed a problem with the HTML file when they aren't included. When they're
included, the page numbers in the HTML file are separated from the text by a
blank line, when they aren't included, then the page numbers appear on the same
line as part of the text, either at the beginning of the first paragraph of
text or at the end of the last paragraph of text.
I've spoken to Engineering about the problem which occurs when the blank
lines are left out and asked them to fix it.
Since as I said, it doesn't seem to matter to the Stripper, I personally
think it's better to include them for now so that the HTML files look better.
HTH
Gerald
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From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Silvara
Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2006 7:12 PM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: comment on Protecting page numbers and
chapter headings
Hi:
Just a slight comment on page numbers. I was under the impression that
there should not be a blank line between the page break and the page number.
Meaning the that the page number should be the first item on the page followed
by a blank line and then the text. Has this changed?
As for footers which is page numbers at the bottom of the page I believe
it's suppose to be text, followed by a blank line, page number, and blank line
and then page break. This is what I have been doing with both validations and
submissions. I strip all headers and just leave in page numbers.
If anyone is interested in protecting chapter headers I posted a tip
on Jake's site. Please let me know if it's clear enough. Or I should add
examples to clarify my point. I feel that it is really important to protect
chapter titles so please let me know if I can help.
***
Grace
For scanning and validating tips
check out
http://www.jbrownell.com/bks/tl.asp
For ideas of books to scan check out:
the No Book Left Behind AKA
Reject list
http://www.jbrownell.com/bks/reject.asp
Rescan List
http://www.jbrownell.com/bks/rescan.asp
----- Original Message -----
From: Donna Smith
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 1:17 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Protecting page numbers and chapter
headings
Thanks Gerald. This is great. Now I can go forth and make good scans
for all. <smile>
Peace and Hope,
Donna
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From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Gerald Hovas
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 9:35 AM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Protecting page numbers and chapter
headings
Donna,
1. The page numbers are what the Stripper is looking for. That's it's
primary job, to recognize and process page numbers. Stripping the text that it
finds along with them was just something that the Engineer decided to throw in
for a bonus. The page numbers are stripped and stored in the SMIL file
according to the DAISY specification. DAISY readers use this information to
navigate through the book. The page numbers are put back in the BRF and HTML
files when those files are created.
2. Sorry about the periods. They're just a kind of vertical ellipses
to signify that something's there. Just a way to make the text part take up
more room. Ignore them.
HTH
Gerald
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From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Donna Smith
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 8:20 AM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Protecting page numbers and chapter
headings
Gerald, this is great information.
Two more questions if you don't mind.
1.. So if I manually strip all headers, put a blank line then the
page number and then another blank line, the BookShare stripper won't then
strip the page number as the closest thing resembling a header?
2.. I hope I'm not just being too obtuse, but in your examples, do
you mean that I should put in the three lines with a period separated by a
blank line? What's the purpose of this?
Thanks.
Donna
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From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Gerald Hovas
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 7:19 PM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Protecting page numbers and chapter
headings
Donna,
1.. Yes, put a blank line before and after the page number when the
page number is in the header as well as a blank line at the bottom of the page.
I'm not sure if the blank line is necessary between the page number and the
text, but I can say that putting one after the header does work well. If you
leave the blank lines at the top and bottom of the pages off, then some odd
things will happen to the page numbers when the HTML file is created. The page
numbers end up as part of a paragraph instead of on a separate line.
Example of how the page should look...
[Page Break]
95
.
.
.
text
.
.
.
[Page Break]
2.. Yes, put a blank line between the chapter heading and the first
line of text. Again, I don't know that this is necessary, but it does work
well, and some people have said that it is necessary.
3. Yes, you need to give the Stripper something to strip other than the
chapter heading or the chapter heading will be stripped. The easiest thing to
do when page numbers are normally at the top of pages except on pages where a
chapter begins is to move the page number from the bottom of the page to the
top. If page numbers are always at the bottom of the page, then place a false
header above the chapter heading. Using the title works well, and it won't
look as odd if the Stripper fails to strip it for some odd reason. It helps to
strip all of the real headers manually since its easier to strip them yourself
than to insure that they are consistent so that the Stripper will remove them
all, but if you do leave them in, then just follow the pattern of the headers
and put whatever header would normally appear on the top of that page above the
chapter heading.
Examples of how pages should look...
[Page Break]
95
Chapter Seven
.
.
.
text
.
.
.
[Page Break]
[Page Break]
The Firm
Chapter Seven
.
.
.
text
.
.
.
95
[Page Break]
Or if the page would normally contain the author's name instead of the
title...
[Page Break]
John Grisham
Chapter Seven
.
.
.
text
.
.
.
[Page Break]
I can't say that these are the only ways to do it, but I've had
excellent results with these approaches.
HTH
Gerald
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From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Donna Smith
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 5:41 PM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Protecting page numbers and chapter headings
Hi all.
I hesitate to ask this question, but I can't find the answer on any of
the official or unofficial sites giving tips to scanners.
Did we ever determine absolutely what should be done to protect page
numbers and chapter headings? What I want to know is:
1.. At the top of each page, do I need to put a blank line before
and/or after the page number?
2.. For chapter numbers/titles that appear at the top of the page, do
I put a blank line before and/or after it?
3.. Is it necessary to have something at the top of the page for the
BookShare stripper to strip?
I spend a good bit of time cleaning up each scan regarding page
numbers, chapter headings and stripping out unwanted headers. I'm trying to do
it in such a way that it will result in the best book in the finished product.
I really, really hope that an answer has been found to this question
and that I'm not opening up the can of worms we've had before about the
different perceptions of what might work. <smile>
Thanks.
Peace and Hope,
Donna
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