[bksvol-discuss] Re: bookshare seems to be interested in quantity
- From: Cindy <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 17:46:45 -0700 (PDT)
The Lloyd Alexander books Evan wrote about.
Cindy
--- "E." <thoth93@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> What books are these?
>
> At 08:24 PM 9/26/2006, you wrote:
>
> >Yes, do, i.e., fix it up and submit it as a BSO,
> i.e.,
> >replacement, or rescan it. I do vaguely remember
> the
> >High king. I think quite a few of us would be
> willing
> >o validate the books and make them excellent.
> >
> >Cindy
> >
> >--- Evan Reese <mentat1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> > > Well, aside from the problems I mentioned, and
> the
> > > fact that the first
> > > letter of each chapter is missing and some of
> the
> > > chapter headings are
> > > garbled, and that the vast majority of print
> page
> > > numbers are missing, the
> > > text quality is quite good. Perhaps this has
> > > something to do with the fact
> > > that the book was submitted by a Bookshare
> in-house
> > > volunteer, so the
> > > original scan was very good. But clearly
> whoever
> > > validated it never
> > > actually looked at the text of the book. Some
> of
> > > these hard returns in the
> > > middle of paragraphs may be due to a page break
> > > being in the print edition;
> > > but since I have seen perhaps a half-dozen print
> > > page numbers or so in the
> > > first 70 print pages, I cannot be sure.
> Certainly
> > > that does not account for
> > > all of them. Maybe a Daisy version would look
> > > better, but I would imagine
> > > that it still has the broken up words and the
> > > missing print page numbers.
> > >
> > > This is The Book of Three by Lloyd Alexander,
> the
> > > first book in the Prydain
> > > series. Currently Bookshare has that one, The
> Black
> > > Cauldron and The High
> > > King, which was a Newbery winner. But books 3
> and 4
> > > of the series are not
> > > on Bookshare at all, and I was going to scan
> them.
> > > But I wanted to start
> > > the series from the beginning, since it has been
> > > many years since I have
> > > read it. I am really enjoying it anyhow, but I
> have
> > > to fix this up as I
> > > read my brf copy, and I'm thinking that I should
> > > probably rescan it. I
> > > haven't checked the other two yet, but unless
> they
> > > were done recently, as in
> > > after the Braille translator was upgraded, and
> > > unless some validator went
> > > through and fixed them up, they may need
> rescanning
> > > as well. Perhaps one of
> > > the DP's on this list who likes juveniles and/or
> who
> > > remembers these books
> > > fondly could take a look and check out the
> quality
> > > of The Black Cauldron and
> > > The High King. Perhaps we can share them out
> and
> > > get them into proper
> > > shape. I really don't like the thought of kids
> > > having to read them if they
> > > look like this one - especially Braille readers.
> > > There are few enough of
> > > them as it is, and this kind of quality would
> hardly
> > > seem to be an
> > > encouragement to read more. Before anyone asks,
> all
> > > of the books in the
> > > series are available on Web Braille, and in a
> couple
> > > of other versions as
> > > well. But that hardly seems a good reason to
> keep
> > > lousy versions on
> > > Bookshare. If the older books were retranslated
> > > with the recently upgraded
> > > Braille translator, perhaps some of these
> problems I
> > > mentioned would go
> > > away. But that wouldn't put in the missing
> print
> > > page numbers, or fix up
> > > all the broken up words.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Cindy" <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
> > > To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 12:11 PM
> > > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: bookshare seems to
> be
> > > interested in quantity
> > >
> > >
> > > >I can't imagine how that got rated Excellent.
> It
> > > needs
> > > > to be rescanned or put on the download list to
> be
> > > > re-validated.--IMO
> > > >
> > > > CIndy
> > > >
> > > > --- Evan Reese <mentat1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> I'm reading a book rated excellent right now.
> > > Some
> > > >> of the problems I think
> > > >> are due to the old Braille translator. Every
> > > word
> > > >> of the Table of Contents
> > > >> is on a separate line, every italicized word
> is
> > > on a
> > > >> separate line - I've
> > > >> seen this in other books done before the
> > > translator
> > > >> was upgraded, but why it
> > > >> did that I have no idea. Additionally, the
> book
> > > has
> > > >> a lot of hard returns in
> > > >> the middle of paragraphs. But the most
> annoying
> > > >> problem is that the book
> > > >> has a lot of broken up words, where a hyphen
> > > might
> > > >> have been in the original
> > > >> book, but the hyphens are gone. So in the
> brf
> > > >> version, I have quite a few
> > > >> things like i n sign g's on new lines, just
> as
> > > one
> > > >> example. I repeat, this
> > > >> book has an excellent rating. Regretfully, I
> > > >> couldn't help wondering how
> > > >> someone having this version as their first
> > > exposure
> > > >> to Bookshare might
> > > >> react. Perhaps reading it anyway, but
> perhaps
> > > >> deciding that Bookshare
> > > >> wasn't for them. This is especially
> unfortunate
> > > >> because this is a juvenile,
> > > >> and maybe the kid would be just so happy to
> read
> > > it
> > > >> that he/she would just
> > > >> skate by these kinds of things, but perhaps
> > > he/she
> > > >> would be more put off of
> > > >> reading it than an adult would be. I don't
> know,
> > > >> but it troubles me.
> > > >>
> > > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > > >> From: "E." <thoth93@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > >> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > >> Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 4:53 AM
> > > >> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: bookshare seems
> to
> > > be
> > > >> interested in quantity
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> > Another thought is garbage in garbage out.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Folks are rightly offended at paying for
> > > bookshar
> > > >> subscriptions and then,
> > > >> > if particularly unlucky, downloading a book
> > > rated
> > > >> excellent which turns
> > > >> > out not to be so.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Apparently particular upset is reserved for
> 1
> > > >> instead of I resulting in "1
> > > >> > have" etc. and people particularly hate
> reading
> > > >> for pleasure when the book
> > > >> > is of poor quality in some way. I think
> folks
> > > may
> > > >> be willing to slog
> > > >> > through more muck if they have to read a
> > > textbook.
> > > >> An example might be my
> > > >> > being willing to listen to somebody read a
> > > >> textbook badly but not put up
> > > >> > with it if reading a novel for my own
> > > amusement.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > What you say, she is sometimes doing things
> for
> > > >> amusement?
> > > >> >
> > > >> > E.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >>I believe that you are correct. And
> perhaps it
> > > is
> > > >> the proper strategy at
> > > >> >>this point, though I'm not certain of it.
> One
> > > >> thought process might be
> > > >> >>that
> > > >> >>it's important in the first few years of
> > > >> Bookshare's life to build
> > > >> >>numbers,
> > > >> >>to show that the collection can grow when
> > > driven
> > > >> by the needs and wants of
> > > >> >>the blind membership.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>On the other hand, many people, myself
> > > included,
> > > >> won't touch a fair book,
> > > >> >>and would argue that they don't really
> count as
> > > a
> > > >> part of the collection
> > > >> >>as
> > > >> >>they are of such inferior quality.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>Why do I envision myself like Tevia ...
> He's
> > > right
> > > >> ... No, he's right.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>Ah, just rambling.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>Lora
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>-----Original Message-----
> > > >> >>From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > >>
> >>[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> > > >> Behalf Of E.
> > > >> >>Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 5:32 AM
> > > >> >>To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > >> >>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] bookshare seems
> to be
> > > >> interested in quantity
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>I suspect that bookshare still wants to
> give
> > > most
> > > >> of the monetary reward
> > > >> >>to
> > > >> >>the person submitting the book rather than
> the
> > > >> person validating it and so
> > > >> >>is not likely to make the difference more
> > > >> "equitable" as you want. I base
> > > >> >>this suspicion on the fact that bookshare
> still
> > > >> permits submits of poor
> > > >> >>quality books rather than raising the bar,
> > > thereby
> > > >> making less work for
> > > >> >>validators and improving the quality of
> > > >> bookshare's collection. Bookshare
> > > >> >>for now seems to want to keep the bar low
> and
> > > >> strive for quantity.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>E.
> > > >> >>At 07:15 AM 9/26/2006, you wrote:
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> >Hi Monica,
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >I do understand that some people validate
> for
> > > >> credits, and there's
> > > >> >> >nothing at all wrong with that. On the
> other
> > > >> hand, many of the people
> > > >> >> >on this list, yourself included, strike
> me as
> > > >> dedicated, and willing to
> > > >> >> >do a good job for Bookshare at the same
> time.
> > > >> Originally, Evan I think
> > > >> >> >it was, said that by offering more money,
> > > people
> > > >> would just rush
> > > >> >> >through their validations to get the
> credits.
> > > >> Although this may be
> > > >> >> >true for some, I still find it hard to
> > > believe
> > > >> that most volunteers
> > > >> >> >would do that. Didn't someone say that
> only
> > > >> seven people paid for their
> > > >> >>memberships through their volunteer
> efforts?
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >On the other hand, I'd rather see the pay
> > > scale
> > > >> changed entirely.
> > > >> >> >Perhaps
> > > >> >> >$2 for submissions, and $1 for
> validation,
> > > would
> > > >> balance the scales
> > > >> >> >more equably.
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >This would balance so that 25
> submissions, or
> > > 50
> > > >> validations, would pay
> > > >> >> >for a renewal of membership.
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >And if offering more for validations
> would
> > > cause
> > > >> people to race through
> > > >> >> >a validation, offering less would seem to
> > > >> encourage people to race even
> > > >> >> >faster. After all, if I'll only make
> fifty
> > > >> cents per validation, that
> > > >> >> >means I'll have to validate 100 books to
> get
> > > >> through the renewal
> > > >> >> >process. Better validate real fast!
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >-----Original Message-----
> > > >> >> >From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > >> >>
> >[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > > On
> > > >> Behalf Of Monica
> > > >> >> >Willyard
> > > >> >> >Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 10:50 PM
> > > >> >> >To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > >> >> >Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: a sort of
> raise
> > > >> for validators
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >Hi, Cindy. I have a scanner and use
> Openbook
> > > to
> > > >> scan. What I was
> > > >> >> >trying to say is that without credits, I
> > > >> wouldn't do much on the
> > > >> >> >validating side of things. As it is, I
> do
> > > >> validation both for the
> > > >> >> >credit and because we have a pretty hefty
> > > step 1
> > > >> page right now. Lora
> > > >> >> >was talking about not validating for
> credits,
> > > >> and that is what I was
> > > >> >> >responding to. (smile)
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >Monica Willyard
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >On Monday 9/25/2006 11:34 PM, you wrote:
> > > >> >> > >Monica,
> > > >> >> > >
> > > >> >> > >One gets so much more monetary credit
> for
> > > >> scanning, and all you'd
> > > >> >> > >really have to do after a scan is to
> check
> > > the
> > > >> copyright page and put
> > > >> >> > >the right info in the submission form;
> go
> > > >> through the book and be
> > > >> >> > >sure no pages have been omitted (we've
> all
> > > >> done that, and
> > > >> >> > >double-scanned a page, too); and delete
> > > junk
> > > >> characters; and run a
> > > >> >> > >spell-check. So you validate because
> you
> > > don't
> > > >> have a scanner? I
> > > >> >> > >think some can be had relatively
> > > inexpensively
> > > >> and it might pay you n
> > > >> >> > >the
> > > >> >>long run.
> > > >> >> > >
> > > >> >> > >I don't blame you at all for validating
> for
> > > >> the credits. I probably
> > > >> >> > >would work for the credits, too. I
> admit
> > > that
> > > >> in my lifetime I have
> > > >> >> > >volunteered my time and efforts rather
> than
> > > >> donated money, not only
> > > >> >> > >because I feel I'm being useful but
> because
> > > I
> > > >> don't have that much
> > > >> >> > >money to donate. smile
> > > >> >> > >
> > > >> >> > >Cindy
> > > >> >> >
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