[bksvol-discuss] Re: agressive dogs
- From: Grandma Cindy <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2006 11:53:03 -0800 (PST)
Thanks for the info, Lora. It makes sense, of course,
and I suppose if I'd thought a little more about it
I'd have figured that out. Oh, well..fortunately,
there are those of you who are patient with those of
us who ask stupid questions. smile
Cindy
--- Lora <loravara@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Hi, Cindy,
>
> I don't think I've ever seen a dog guide smaller
> than about 40 pounds. That
> was a small lab. They've also used greyhounds,
> which tend to be lightweight
> and wiry. (I remember the instructor telling the
> girl who got the greyhound
> to be careful, because he could jump an eight-foot
> fence with little
> effort).
>
> The dog has to be tall enough so that when he/she
> wears a harness, the owner
> can comfortably hold the handle of the harness, and
> receive information as
> the dog pulls into that harness. The dog also has
> to be strong enough to
> exert good, solid pressure into the harness, because
> that's how you
> ascertain much of your information about the
> environment.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf Of Natalie B.
> Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 10:21 PM
> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: agressive dogs
>
> Cindy, can I just input my opinion here? In regards
> to beagles, first and
> foremost is that their stubborn. I have a purebreed
> one myself and although
> he's mellowed a lot since puppyhood, he still does
> things that annoy me. No
> matter how much I give him a time-out, he'll
> continue to do his bad
> behavior.
>
> Back in the day when we were going to puppy
> training, I fortunately had a
> trainer who had two beagles of her own. And she said
> you had to train them
> from the minute you got them, or else it would be a
> battle from then on,
> because beagles are stubborn little dickens. One
> example she gave was with
> her older beagle. They trained her from a puppy to
> accept someone cutting
> her nails by giving her treats and then slowly
> taking the treats away.
> Eventually that dog would allow anyone to cut her
> nails with no problem and
> no treats. But, her younger dog was obtained from
> the Humane Society, and
> although they tried the same technique, even in
> adulthood, the dog had to be
> sat in front of the TV and hand-fed treats as
> someone cut their nails.
>
> Sorry that was an essay, but when it comes to
> beagles, I go overboard. I
> love my rascal beagle, even if his head is harder
> than mine. Haha.
>
> Natalie B.
>
> P.S. I could be wrong, but I don't think there are
> any beagle guide dogs. Or
> are there? I did hear of a service horse once, so I
> guess anything is
> possible.
>
> "God grant me the serenity to accept the things I
> cannot change, courage to
> change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the
> difference."
> -Reinhold Niebuhr
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Grandma Cindy" <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 6:59 PM
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] agressive dogs
>
>
> >I don't think I've ever seen a small guide dog,
> like
> > a beagle. DO they have to be a certain size?
> >
> > I ask because I was wondering about the size of
> the
> > dog at the convention that you talk about,
> Shelley. My
> > daughter's beagle mix has a Napoleonic complex, I
> > think. She barks and lunges and tries to get at
> bigger
> > dogs--but not those of equal size or smaller dogs.
> > Dori and Mark got her from a pound, so they didn't
> > train her from puppyhood, though they did think
> she
> > was younger than it turns out she was. And they
> have
> > tried to change the behavior--but it's as if she's
> > trying to assert herself, either because of her
> size
> > or because she's female and a feminist? smile
> >
> > Cindy
> >
> >
> >
> > --- "Shelley L. Rhodes" <juddysbuddy@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Actually, smile.
> >>
> >> Elizabeth, I beg to differ, have seen aggressive
> >> dogs come out of all the
> >> schools. Even ones that are tested still end up
> out
> >> in society. And a lot
> >> of the behaviors that are displayed come from the
> >> dog being around a new and
> >> often unusual person not their trainer.
> >>
> >> I have met aggressive dogs in all the breeds,
> Labs,
> >> goldens, and GSDs, both
> >> towards people and other animals.
> >>
> >> I remember this one lab once we came to this
> >> convention and every time I
> >> brought my dog towards this dog, he would bark
> and
> >> lounge at my dog, while
> >> the owner atteempted to "restrain" him. This
> even
> >> happened when we were in
> >> the state capital building doing advocacy work.
> The
> >> dog had a huge bark
> >> too. I didn't see that dog much of the
> convention
> >> after that evening.
> >>
> >> Smile. They do a good job, all of the schools
> do,
> >> or they should, but even
> >> they don't see the signs some times.
> >>
> >> One of my friend's first dogs, was retired, from
> a
> >> reputable school after
> >> she a GSD jumped up and nipped a guy leaning over
> my
> >> friend's shoulder.
> >>
> >> Another dog had a terrible habbit of attacking
> other
> >> dogs at meetings and
> >> after the owner tried a basket muzzle said dog
> was
> >> retired at three or four.
> >>
> >> I have one friend who had two dogs from the same
> >> school that had extremely
> >> high pray drive, one attacked a child's video
> game,
> >> didn't like the flashing
> >> lights they figure. And her second dog dragged
> her
> >> into an extremely busy
> >> street after a cat. This with severest of
> >> corrections and she could give
> >> them with the best of them.
> >>
> >> All of the above examples come from different
> >> schools.
> >>
> >> And as my friends in the Animal rescue group
> always
> >> tells me sometimes there
> >> are behavioral problems that don't show up in the
> >> foster or training stages
> >> unless of course, smile, they are traded off to
> be
> >> with another person, or
> >> are rehomed, to a person with a much different
> >> handling style.
> >>
> >> I know I definitely have a different handling
> style
> >> than others do, and I
> >> know it would show, in the dogs that I own. One
> of
> >> my friends has a very
> >> rambunctious guide, who, smile, wouldn't be a
> happy
> >> dog in my household, as
> >> I discipline him when I watch him, and he doesn't
> do
> >> half the things around
> >> me he does with his owner. But I also allow
> certain
> >> things with my dog that
> >> other handlers would frown down upon, like
> letting
> >> said dog on my bed,
> >> smile.
> >>
> >>
> >> Shelley L. Rhodes B.S. Ed, CTVI
> >> and Judson, guiding golden
> >> juddysbuddy@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> Guide Dogs For the Blind Inc.
> >> Graduate Alumni Association Board
> >> www.guidedogs.com
> >>
> >> Dog ownership is like a rainbow.
> >> Puppies are the joy at one end.
> >> Old dogs are the treasure at the other.
> >> Carolyn Alexander
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Elizabeth and Burton"
> <thoth93@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 10:44 PM
> >> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: OT: people's
> reactions
> >> and stpid questions
> >>
> >>
> >> My school would have tested out the dog in
> various
> >> situations with various
> >> kinds of people and would reject any dog
> displaying
> >> such symptoms. A blind
> >> person has enough to do whtout handling that. No
> >> reputable school these
> >> days lets such a dog out after training. No
> >> reputable school in the past
> >> did either. I know this casts your school
> whoever
> >> it is in a bad light but
> >> I have worked with dogs for thirty years and it
> is
> >> simply not fair to the
> >> blind person or general public to work with such
> >> animals in social
> >> situations (which means in a world with people
> >> grin!).
> >>
> >> E.
> >>
> >>
> >> At 07:16 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:
> >> >I agree. The first dog I received was a German
> >> shepherd who, for some
> >> >reason I never learned, didn't like Asian
> people.
> >> I remember warning a
> >> >friend who was Chinese not to pet her. He
> didn't
> >> listen, and she bit him.
> >> >Not badly, but to bite him at all was bad. She
> was
> >> very protective of me
> >> >in
> >> >general, and I feared that other such incidents
> >> would occur. She did
> >> >retire
> >> >early, but due to hip dysplasia. I kept her
> >> because she was an excellent
> >> >guide, and we worked well together, but in the
> back
> >> of my mind I felt
> >> >guilty, because I knew she might bite again.
> I've
> >> had two dogs since then,
> >> >and neither has demonstrated such tendencies.
> >> >
> >> >I'm thinking about getting another dog, but that
> >> opens a whole new can of
> >> >worms. I haven't decided how people will react
> to
> >> the dog. I've done my
> >> >current job for the past five years as a cane
> user,
> >> and I'm not sure how
> >> >people's opinions will change if I get a dog.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >-----Original Message-----
> >> >From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> >> Behalf Of Shelley L. Rhodes
> >> >Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 8:59 AM
> >> >To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: OT: people's
> >> reactions and stpid questions
> >> >
> >> >Yes indeed that is definitely over protectiness
> and
> >> that dog should be
> >> >retired. I have met several dogs, who were
> >> "managed" like your friends dog
> >> >and all of them ended up retiring early usually
> >> after the escalated into
> >> >nipping people or other dogs.
> >> >
> >> >Aggression is a trait that we do not want to see
> in
> >> a guide dog of any
> >> >breed.
> >> >
> >> >Shelley L. Rhodes B.S. Ed, CTVI
> >> >and Judson, guiding golden
> >> >juddysbuddy@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >Guide Dogs For the Blind Inc.
> >> >Graduate Alumni Association Board
> >> >www.guidedogs.com
> >> >
> >> >Dog ownership is like a rainbow.
> >> > Puppies are the joy at one end.
> >> > Old dogs are the treasure at the other.
> >> >Carolyn Alexander
> >> >
> >> >----- Original Message -----
> >> >From: "robert tweedy"
> <roberttweedy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 8:10 AM
> >> >Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: OT: people's
> >> reactions and stpid questions
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >That sounds like over protectness, our school
> >> wouldn't like that.
> >> >For skype contact bobwichitaks
> >> >For msn contact info rt5117@xxxxxxx no emails.
> >> >----- Original Message -----
> >> >From: "Elizabeth and Burton"
> >> <thoth93@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 12:47 AM
> >> >Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: OT: people's
> >> reactions and stpid questions
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > >I would question the wisdom of any school
> letting
> >> a dog out into everyday
> >> > >reality which reacted in such a way to sudden
> >> moves. Just my opinion.
> >> > >My
> >> > >school certainly would cull such a dog out.
> It
> >> is just too unsafe for
> >> > >the
> >> > >dog's person otherwise.
> >> > >
> >> > > E.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > At 01:44 AM 12/4/2006, you wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > >>Once I was in a restaurant with a friend who
> had
> >> a guide dog, hallf
> >> > >>German
> >> > >>shephere and half German police. The dog was
> a
> >> good worker but did not
> >> > >>like
> >> > >>sudden moves. A man at our table dropped the
> >> lid to the catsup bottle
> >> > >>on
> >> > >>the floor under the table. The dog was under
> >> there, and his partnner
> >> > >>warned
> >> > >>the man not to get the top because the dog
> might
> >> bite. Well, the man
> >> > >>did
> >> > >>not listen and the dog bit him. Since there
> >> were witnesses that the man
> >> > >>had
> >> > >>been warned, the man did not press charges,
> but
> >> did need a few stitches.
> >> > >>
> >> > >>Sue S.
> >> > >>
> >> > >>----- Original Message -----
> >> > >>From: "Shelley L. Rhodes"
> >> <juddysbuddy@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > >>To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > >>Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 10:08 PM
> >> > >>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: OT: people's
> >> reactions and stpid questions
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>I don't mind if people ask to pet my dog,
> >> particularly if he is laying
> >> > >>down
> >> > >>somewhere, or if I am in a familiar place,
> like
> >> my church, at Western,
> >> > >>or
> >> > >>at
> >> > >>my job this summer. In fact Judson knows the
> >> command "Go say hi" and
> >> > >>knows
> >> > >>he is allowed to be a dog, when I give that
> >> command.
> >> > >>
> >> > >>Now... I do need to reinforce this sigh, at
> the
> >> church though as a
> >> > >>couple
> >> > >>of
> >> > >>the girls are taking liberties.
> >> > >>
> >> > >>But I don't have a problem with people who
> ask
> >> if I have the time.
> >> > >>
> >> > >>But if I say NO there is a reason why I am
> >> saying NO, and please respect
> >> > >>that, smile.
> >> > >>
> >> > >>Some people don't.
> >> > >>
> >> > >>Shelley L. Rhodes B.S. Ed, CTVI
> >> > >>and Judson, guiding golden
> >> > >>juddysbuddy@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > >>Guide Dogs For the Blind Inc.
> >> > >>Graduate Alumni Association Board
> >> > >>www.guidedogs.com
> >> > >>
> >> > >>Dog ownership is like a rainbow.
> >> > >> Puppies are the joy at one end.
> >> > >> Old dogs are the treasure at the other.
> >> > >>Carolyn Alexander
> >> > >>
> >> > >>----- Original Message -----
> >> > >>From: <barbarab65@xxxxxxx>
> >> > >>To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > >>Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 7:02 PM
> >> > >>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: OT: people's
> >> reactions and stpid questions
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>Sometimes, in the right circumstances, I ask
> >> people who are not blind if
> >> > >>I
> >> > >>can pet their dog. Therefore, it would seem
> >> normal for me to ask someone
> >> > >>who
> >> > >>is
> >> > >> in blind, in the right circumstances, if I
> >> could pet his or her dog.
> >> > >> Now, I
> >> > >>know not to do this, anymore. I think that
> the
> >> sign helps because it is
> >> > >>a
> >> > >>natural inclination to pet dogs.
> >> > >>
> >> > >>Blind
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> >
> >>
>
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