[bksvol-discuss] Re: agressive dogs

  • From: "Lora" <loravara@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2006 05:28:41 -0700

Hi, Cindy,

I don't think I've ever seen a dog guide smaller than about 40 pounds.  That
was a small lab.  They've also used greyhounds, which tend to be lightweight
and wiry.  (I remember the instructor telling the girl who got the greyhound
to be careful, because he could jump an eight-foot fence with little
effort).

The dog has to be tall enough so that when he/she wears a harness, the owner
can comfortably hold the handle of the harness, and receive information as
the dog pulls into that harness.  The dog also has to be strong enough to
exert good, solid pressure into the harness, because that's how you
ascertain much of your information about the environment.
 

-----Original Message-----
From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Natalie B.
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 10:21 PM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: agressive dogs

Cindy, can I just input my opinion here? In regards to beagles, first and
foremost is that their stubborn. I have a purebreed one myself and although
he's mellowed a lot since puppyhood, he still does things that annoy me. No
matter how much I give him a time-out, he'll continue to do his bad
behavior.

Back in the day when we were going to puppy training, I fortunately had a
trainer who had two beagles of her own. And she said you had to train them
from the minute you got them, or else it would be a battle from then on,
because beagles are stubborn little dickens. One example she gave was with
her older beagle. They trained her from a puppy to accept someone cutting
her nails by giving her treats and then slowly taking the treats away. 
Eventually that dog would allow anyone to cut her nails with no problem and
no treats. But, her younger dog was obtained from the Humane Society, and
although they tried the same technique, even in adulthood, the dog had to be
sat in front of the TV and hand-fed treats as someone cut their nails.

Sorry that was an essay, but when it comes to beagles, I go overboard. I
love my rascal beagle, even if his head is harder than mine. Haha.

Natalie B.

P.S. I could be wrong, but I don't think there are any beagle guide dogs. Or
are there? I did hear of a service horse once, so I guess anything is
possible.

"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to
change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference."
-Reinhold Niebuhr
----- Original Message -----
From: "Grandma Cindy" <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 6:59 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] agressive dogs


>I don't think I've ever seen a small guide  dog, like
> a  beagle. DO they have to be a certain size?
>
> I ask because I was wondering about the size of the
> dog at the convention that you talk about, Shelley. My
> daughter's beagle mix has a Napoleonic complex, I
> think. She barks and lunges and tries to get at bigger
> dogs--but not those of equal size or smaller dogs.
> Dori and Mark got her from a pound, so they didn't
> train her from puppyhood, though they did think she
> was younger than it turns out she was. And they have
> tried to change the behavior--but it's as if she's
> trying to assert herself, either because of her size
> or because she's female and a feminist? smile
>
> Cindy
>
>
>
> --- "Shelley L. Rhodes" <juddysbuddy@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
>
>> Actually, smile.
>>
>> Elizabeth, I beg to differ, have seen aggressive
>> dogs come out of all the
>> schools.  Even ones that are tested still end up out
>> in society.  And a lot
>> of the behaviors that are displayed come from the
>> dog being around a new and
>> often unusual person not their trainer.
>>
>> I have met aggressive dogs in all the breeds, Labs,
>> goldens, and GSDs, both
>> towards people and other animals.
>>
>> I remember this one lab once we came to this
>> convention and every time I
>> brought my dog towards this dog, he would bark and
>> lounge at my dog, while
>> the owner atteempted to "restrain" him.  This even
>> happened when we were in
>> the state capital building doing advocacy work.  The
>> dog had a huge bark
>> too.  I didn't see that dog much of the convention
>> after that evening.
>>
>> Smile.  They do a good job, all of the schools do,
>> or they should, but even
>> they don't see the signs some times.
>>
>> One of my friend's first dogs, was retired, from a
>> reputable school after
>> she a GSD jumped up and nipped a guy leaning over my
>> friend's shoulder.
>>
>> Another dog had a terrible habbit of attacking other
>> dogs at meetings and
>> after the owner tried a basket muzzle said dog was
>> retired at three or four.
>>
>> I have one friend who had two dogs from the same
>> school that had extremely
>> high pray drive, one attacked a child's video game,
>> didn't like the flashing
>> lights they figure.  And her second dog dragged her
>> into an extremely busy
>> street after a cat.  This with severest of
>> corrections and she could give
>> them with the best of them.
>>
>> All of the above examples come from different
>> schools.
>>
>> And as my friends in the Animal rescue group always
>> tells me sometimes there
>> are behavioral problems that don't show up in the
>> foster or training stages
>> unless of course, smile, they are traded off to be
>> with another person, or
>> are rehomed, to a person with a much different
>> handling style.
>>
>> I know I definitely have a different handling style
>> than others do, and I
>> know it would show, in the dogs that I own.  One of
>> my friends has a very
>> rambunctious guide, who, smile, wouldn't be a happy
>> dog in my household, as
>> I discipline him when I watch him, and he doesn't do
>> half the things around
>> me he does with his owner.  But I also allow certain
>> things with my dog that
>> other handlers would frown down upon, like letting
>> said dog on my bed,
>> smile.
>>
>>
>> Shelley L. Rhodes B.S. Ed, CTVI
>> and Judson, guiding golden
>> juddysbuddy@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Guide Dogs For the Blind Inc.
>> Graduate Alumni Association Board
>> www.guidedogs.com
>>
>> Dog ownership is like a rainbow.
>>  Puppies are the joy at one end.
>>  Old dogs are the treasure at the other.
>> Carolyn Alexander
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Elizabeth and Burton" <thoth93@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 10:44 PM
>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: OT: people's reactions
>> and stpid questions
>>
>>
>> My school would have tested out the dog in various
>> situations with various
>> kinds of people and would reject any dog displaying
>> such symptoms.  A blind
>> person has enough to do whtout handling that.  No
>> reputable school these
>> days lets such a dog out after training.  No
>> reputable school in the past
>> did either.  I know this casts your school whoever
>> it is in a bad light but
>> I have worked with dogs for thirty years and it is
>> simply not fair to the
>> blind person or general public to work with such
>> animals in social
>> situations (which means in a world with people
>> grin!).
>>
>> E.
>>
>>
>> At 07:16 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:
>> >I agree.  The first dog I received was a German
>> shepherd who, for some
>> >reason I never learned, didn't like Asian people.
>> I remember warning a
>> >friend who was Chinese not to pet her.  He didn't
>> listen, and she bit him.
>> >Not badly, but to bite him at all was bad.  She was
>> very protective of me
>> >in
>> >general, and I feared that other such incidents
>> would occur.  She did
>> >retire
>> >early, but due to hip dysplasia.  I kept her
>> because she was an excellent
>> >guide, and we worked well together, but in the back
>> of my mind I felt
>> >guilty, because I knew she might bite again.  I've
>> had two dogs since then,
>> >and neither has demonstrated such tendencies.
>> >
>> >I'm thinking about getting another dog, but that
>> opens a whole new can of
>> >worms.  I haven't decided how people will react to
>> the dog.  I've done my
>> >current job for the past five years as a cane user,
>> and I'm not sure how
>> >people's opinions will change if I get a dog.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>> Behalf Of Shelley L. Rhodes
>> >Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 8:59 AM
>> >To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: OT: people's
>> reactions and stpid questions
>> >
>> >Yes indeed that is definitely over protectiness and
>> that dog should be
>> >retired.  I have met several dogs, who were
>> "managed" like your friends dog
>> >and all of them ended up retiring early usually
>> after the escalated into
>> >nipping people or other dogs.
>> >
>> >Aggression is a trait that we do not want to see in
>> a guide dog of any
>> >breed.
>> >
>> >Shelley L. Rhodes B.S. Ed, CTVI
>> >and Judson, guiding golden
>> >juddysbuddy@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >Guide Dogs For the Blind Inc.
>> >Graduate Alumni Association Board
>> >www.guidedogs.com
>> >
>> >Dog ownership is like a rainbow.
>> >  Puppies are the joy at one end.
>> >  Old dogs are the treasure at the other.
>> >Carolyn Alexander
>> >
>> >----- Original Message -----
>> >From: "robert tweedy" <roberttweedy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 8:10 AM
>> >Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: OT: people's
>> reactions and stpid questions
>> >
>> >
>> >That sounds like over protectness, our school
>> wouldn't like that.
>> >For skype contact bobwichitaks
>> >For msn contact info rt5117@xxxxxxx no emails.
>> >----- Original Message -----
>> >From: "Elizabeth and Burton"
>> <thoth93@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 12:47 AM
>> >Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: OT: people's
>> reactions and stpid questions
>> >
>> >
>> > >I would question the wisdom of any school letting
>> a dog out into everyday
>> > >reality which reacted in such a way to sudden
>> moves.  Just my opinion.
>> > >My
>> > >school certainly would cull such a dog out.  It
>> is just too unsafe for
>> > >the
>> > >dog's person otherwise.
>> > >
>> > > E.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > At 01:44 AM 12/4/2006, you wrote:
>> > >
>> > >>Once I was in a restaurant with a friend who had
>> a guide dog, hallf
>> > >>German
>> > >>shephere and half German police.  The dog was a
>> good worker but did not
>> > >>like
>> > >>sudden moves.  A man at our table dropped the
>> lid to the catsup bottle
>> > >>on
>> > >>the floor under the table.  The dog was under
>> there, and his partnner
>> > >>warned
>> > >>the man not to get the top because the dog might
>> bite.  Well, the man
>> > >>did
>> > >>not listen and the dog bit him.  Since there
>> were witnesses that the man
>> > >>had
>> > >>been warned, the man did not press charges, but
>> did need a few stitches.
>> > >>
>> > >>Sue S.
>> > >>
>> > >>----- Original Message -----
>> > >>From: "Shelley L. Rhodes"
>> <juddysbuddy@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> > >>To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> > >>Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 10:08 PM
>> > >>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: OT: people's
>> reactions and stpid questions
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>I don't mind if people ask to pet my dog,
>> particularly if he is laying
>> > >>down
>> > >>somewhere, or if I am in a familiar place, like
>> my church, at Western,
>> > >>or
>> > >>at
>> > >>my job this summer.  In fact Judson knows the
>> command "Go say hi" and
>> > >>knows
>> > >>he is allowed to be a dog, when I give that
>> command.
>> > >>
>> > >>Now... I do need to reinforce this sigh, at the
>> church though as a
>> > >>couple
>> > >>of
>> > >>the girls are taking liberties.
>> > >>
>> > >>But I don't have a problem with people who ask
>> if I have the time.
>> > >>
>> > >>But if I say NO there is a reason why I am
>> saying NO, and please respect
>> > >>that, smile.
>> > >>
>> > >>Some people don't.
>> > >>
>> > >>Shelley L. Rhodes B.S. Ed, CTVI
>> > >>and Judson, guiding golden
>> > >>juddysbuddy@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > >>Guide Dogs For the Blind Inc.
>> > >>Graduate Alumni Association Board
>> > >>www.guidedogs.com
>> > >>
>> > >>Dog ownership is like a rainbow.
>> > >>  Puppies are the joy at one end.
>> > >>  Old dogs are the treasure at the other.
>> > >>Carolyn Alexander
>> > >>
>> > >>----- Original Message -----
>> > >>From: <barbarab65@xxxxxxx>
>> > >>To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> > >>Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 7:02 PM
>> > >>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: OT: people's
>> reactions and stpid questions
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>Sometimes, in the right circumstances, I ask
>> people who are not blind if
>> > >>I
>> > >>can pet their dog. Therefore, it would seem
>> normal for me to ask someone
>> > >>who
>> > >>is
>> > >>  in blind, in the right circumstances, if I
>> could pet his or her dog.
>> > >> Now, I
>> > >>know  not to do this, anymore. I think that the
>> sign helps because it is
>> > >>a
>> > >>natural  inclination to pet dogs.
>> > >>
>> > >>Blind
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> >
>>
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