[bksvol-discuss] Re: addendum to my post on daisy
- From: Cindy <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 13:06:23 -0700 (PDT)
Thanks, Larry
Cindy
--- On Sat, 5/28/11, Larry Lumpkin <llumpkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> From: Larry Lumpkin <llumpkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] addendum to my post on daisy
> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Date: Saturday, May 28, 2011, 4:24 AM
> Hi Cindy, A couple of things I
> thought of that might be of interest but not directly
> related to bookshare production.
>
> Daisy books are presented in bundles of files placed
> usually into a folder titled with the book title. This
> is not usually important to the user because he/she merely
> opens the book as per the instructions for his/her software
> or machine. Also, I didn't address Braille and I saw
> that Braille was your concern. As far as I know, there
> is no grade II support directly in daisy. A braille
> user would depend on his daisy reader or screen reader to
> give Braille support. For example, FS Reader from
> freedom scientific which is bundled with jaws or magic is
> run with jaws being the means of input/output and, of
> course, jaws supports Braille. Hope this helps.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of Cindy
> Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 4:27 PM
> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] What is Daisy?
>
>
> I'm a little late in asking this question. smile. I've
> assumed people who use a Daisy reader listen to the books.
> What is a Daisy standard, and how does it differ from what
> Braille readers need? I'd like to make my proofs easy for
> both groups.
> Cindy
>
> Whoever has time to answer this question cAN explain to me
> offlist
>
> --- On Fri, 5/27/11, Scott Rains <scottr@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
>
> > From: Scott Rains <scottr@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: bolds, italics,
> ellipses
> > To: "bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx"
> <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Date: Friday, May 27, 2011, 12:12 PM
> > Hi All,
> >
> > My public apology to Mayrie for posting a note that I
> intended to be
> > private. For the record, Mayrie's grasp of the
> technical and policy
> > world we work in is top-notch. I count on her
> knowledge to guide me.
> > The advice she gives you here on the list is sound.
> >
> > On this particular issue, as with several others, we
> balance what you
> > might call "multiple jurisdictions." What you see in
> the manual
> > reflects that balancing act. We use the manual to lay
> down the
> > baseline so that this group can mentor new volunteers
> on the trickier
> > points.
> >
> > Bookshare is being visited this week by the person who
> oversees our
> > federal government contract to add textbooks to the
> collection. She is
> > full of praise for the combined work of volunteers and
> staff. She
> > explicitly mentioned that she, and others in
> government agencies, have
> > noticed the improved quality of our books over the
> past five years.
> > That is a credit to each of you. It also means that we
> have several
> > audiences to please on issues that do not always have
> neat answers.
> >
> > Sometimes standards of quality conflict. We try to
> balance.
> > Some technical
> > solutions that are the best for members are not
> supported by readers'
> > software or hardware yet. Sometimes what works best in
> Braille is less
> > elegant in RTF or vice versa. When we are faced with
> conflicting or
> > emerging standards we defer to the DAISY standard.
> That is what we ask
> > the publishing industry to do. In the absence of a
> DAISY standard,
> > keeping I mind the current limits of readers and AT,
> we try to find a
> > balance that does not put a burden on proofreaders yet
> also meets the
> > needs members.
> >
> > The manual evolves. Part of the way it does so is with
> discussions
> > like these.
> >
> > Scott
> >
> > On 5/27/11 9:27 AM, "Debby Franson" <the.bee@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >Hi Scott and everyone!
> > >
> > >I agree that the manual isn't giving optional
> > information. I just wish
> > >the
> > >manual was updated to agree with transcribing
> rules so
> > these discussions
> > >wouldn't have to come up again and again so that
> > instructions given onlist
> > >and in the manual would agree. When new
> > volunteers come aboard, the
> > >discussions fly through the list again. I
> > appreciate it that we
> > >volunteers
> > >want to do the right thing so that the books will
> be
> > well-formatted and
> > >accurate.
> > >
> > >I hope readers have a good reading experience no
> matter
> > what method is
> > >chosen for reading.
> > >
> > >Debby
> > >
> > >At 04:59 PM 5/25/2011, Scott Rains wrote
> > >>Mayrie,
> > >>
> > >>Let me rein you in on a point below.
> > >>
> > >>We never want to be telling people that the
> manual
> > is giving optional
> > >>activities that aren't required. Bold and
> italic,
> > like font size, are
> > >>required.
> > >>
> > >>They may be required for different reasons.
> Font
> > size is what DAISY
> > >>navigates on so is technically required for
> > navigation. Italics are most
> > >>often in the book so required as part of our
> > adherence to retaining the
> > >>integrity of the publisher's intellectual
> property.
> > Bold may be that or
> > >>it
> > >>may be a way to imitate some of the font and
> > kerning variations of a
> > >>print
> > >>book as a reading aid for sighted readers.
> > >>
> > >>This is sort of the flip side of the
> conversation
> > we had recently when
> > >>you
> > >>asked me not to announce a change in the
> manual.
> > >>
> > >>scott
> > >>
> > >>On 5/21/11 12:27 PM, "Mayrie ReNae" <mayrierenae@xxxxxxxxx>
> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> >Hi Charisma,
> > >> >
> > >> >Oh, boy. I'm going to copy a
> section on
> > the ellipsis that is our
> > >>standard
> > >> >for handling them so that they represent
> > properly in braille. This is
> > >>what
> > >> >Bookshare would like you to do, please.
> I'll
> > paste it below my
> > >>signature.
> > >> >And then I'll save a copy for myself,
> because
> > it's going to be a pain
> > >>in
> > >> >the
> > >> >neck to copy here from the braille book
> that I
> > have it in that tells
> > >>how
> > >> >to
> > >> >format braille properly. Tell me
> that
> > you love me, because I have to
> > >>read
> > >> >with two hands, remember enough to type,
> type
> > it and go back and read
> > >>some
> > >> >more. But all of your questions
> about
> > how to handle the ellipsis will
> > >>be
> > >> >answered!
> > >> >
> > >> >As for bold, it does not denote headings,
> the
> > enlarged size
> > >> >Of the font does that. The bolding
> is
> > helpful, and we like it, but it
> > >> >isn't
> > >> >required. So you needn't go back and fix
> them
> > if you don't want to.
> > >> >Bookshare does not require that you keep
> > either bold or italics. That
> > >> >said,
> > >> >as a reader yourself, with the ability
> to
> > perceive italics, would you
> > >> >personally prefer to have it in there?
> > Many do, some people don't
> > >>care.
> > >> >My
> > >> >advice, leave what you've done be for
> this
> > book, call it a learning
> > >> >experience, and don't remove the italics
> in
> > future books. Torture is
> > >>not
> > >> >the name of the game here, and I know
> that
> > there are lots of books from
> > >> >which italics have been removed by folks
> who
> > didn't know they mattered.
> > >> >
> > >> >Okay, I'm going to paste/type below the
> > information on how to properly
> > >> >handle the ellipsis.
> > >> >
> > >> >Mayrie
> > >> >
> > >> >The ellipsis should be punctuated as if
> it
> > were a word. Examples:
> > >> >"Fools rush in ..."
> > >> >
> > >> >"... for they shall inherit the earth"
> > >> > "Breathe, Mellissa. In ... and out. In
> ...
> > >> >and out."
> > >> >An ellipsis and a period. Sometimes
> an
> > ellipsis appears to be four
> > >>dots
> > >> >rather than three. This is because the
> > ellipsis is either preceded or
> > >> >followed by a period. Since the braille
> period
> > is not the same as the
> > >>dots
> > >> >of an ellipsis, it must be determined
> which of
> > the four dots is the
> > >> >period.
> > >> >
> > >> >If the sentence is incomplete, does not
> > contain a subject and a verb
> > >>and
> > >> >express a complete thought, then the
> ellipsis
> > is taking the place of
> > >> >missing
> > >> >words within the sentence--in which the
> period
> > immediately follows the
> > >> >ellipsis, just as it would a word. If a
> > sentence is gramatically
> > >>complete,
> > >> >the first dot represents the period and
> the
> > ellipsis represents a
> > >> >following
> > >> >missing sentence or sentences. In this
> case a
> > blank cell (a space) is
> > >>left
> > >> >between the period and the following
> > ellipsis.
> > >> >Example:
> > >> >As you can see, I have followed your
> career.
> > ... As to my own ....
> > >>Well,
> > >> >you
> > >> >know the story.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >-----Original Message-----
> > >> >From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >> >[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > On Behalf Of Charisma
> > >> >Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 11:24 AM
> > >> >To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >> >Subject: [bksvol-discuss] bolds,
> italics,
> > ellipses
> > >> >
> > >> >In the book I just scanned, from which I
> > erroneously erased all italics
> > >> >and
> > >> >bolds, the bolds were found in the
> glossary,
> > for each new word.
> > >> >
> > >> >Ought I to have left those bolds? I
> thought
> > anything that was in bold
> > >> >indicated to the converter that that was
> a
> > heading? Of course, in this
> > >> >case,
> > >> >perhaps each new word in the glossary
> ought to
> > be it's own heading? I
> > >> >already had the beginning of the Glossary
> at
> > font point 16.
> > >> >I wonder now if I ought to have made each
> word
> > in the glossary font
> > >>point
> > >> >14, each word a subheading.
> > >> >
> > >> >OK, and since I erased every last italic
> in
> > this 255+ page book, ought
> > >>I
> > >> >to
> > >> >go back and replace them all? I will
> because I
> > want the book to be
> > >>perfect
> > >> >but do I NEED to? (can you guess how I
> am
> > hoping? lol)
> > >> >
> > >> >Finally, ellipses. I have a
> question
> > about your experiences. All
> > >>ellipses
> > >> >in these examples are three dots, not
> spaces
> > between them. On my Victor
> > >> >Reader Stream, Set-up #1 If there
> is a
> > word, then an ellipsis right up
> > >> >against it, then a space, then the next
> word,
> > it reads fine; I never
> > >>know
> > >> >there is an ellipsis there.
> > >> >Set-up #2 If there is a word, then a
> space,
> > then the ellipsis, then a
> > >> >space,
> > >> >then the next word, I hear" dot dot
> dot".
> > >> >Set-up #3 If there is a word and either
> a
> > space or no space, then an
> > >> >ellipsis then no space then the next
> word, if
> > that next word has an
> > >> >apostrophe it will not read properly.
> That is,
> > if the ellipsis pushes
> > >>up
> > >> >against the word God's (like this
> ",,,God's"),
> > my reader will read
> > >>that as
> > >> >"dot dot dot God s"
> > >> >
> > >> >I cannot remember which book it was that
> was
> > doing this so I can't
> > >> >doublecheck it in Victor Reader Soft but
> I am
> > pretty sure these
> > >>problems
> > >> >are
> > >> >the same in there.
> > >> >
> > >> >My TextAloud does not care as far as #3
> > goes--it does not neglect
> > >> >apostrophes.
> > >> >
> > >> >Also, hate hate hate four dot ellipses.
> Period
> > OR ellipsis, author
> > >>people,
> > >> >not period AND ellipsis. I made an
> executive
> > decision and made half 4
> > >>dot
> > >> >and half 3 dot int eh 255+ page book I
> just
> > did. Which shall I fix?
> > >> >
> > >> >Charisma
> > >> > To unsubscribe from this list send a
> blank
> > Email to
> > >> >bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >> >put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in
> the
> > subject line. To get a
> > >>list
> > >> >of
> > >> >available commands, put the word 'help'
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> > itself in the subject line.
> > >> >
> > >> > To unsubscribe from this list send a
> blank
> > Email to
> > >> >bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >> >put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in
> the
> > subject line. To get a
> > >>list
> > >> >of available commands, put the word
> 'help' by
> > itself in the subject
> > >>line.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >>
> >
> >>¢éì¹»®&Þ~º&¶¬Â+-±éÃ
> i¹ZžA&j)m¡¹,¾‰]Å
> >
> >>Ç.²Êު笵úÞzX¬¶Ê+‚›Â¶°¢·nžË›±ÊâmæòÅ
>
> > >>Û•ø
> §¶¬¹¸ÞrÙb äèÂ
> ëZÂ+-¡ö¯j)ZnWϢiÅ¡Â
> Û)ºÛa{
> >
> >>+v¥¥¼¢¶Ç¥~)Ã…ë.n7ϦX§
> > >
> > >--
> > >
>
> >
> > >mailto:<the.bee@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > >--
> > >
> > >Enjoy what you have rather than desiring what you
> don't
> > have. Just
> > >dreaming
> > >about nice things is meaningless; it is like
> chasing
> > the
> > >wind.--Ecclesiastes 6:9 NLT
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email
> to
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> > >put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the
> subject
> > line. To get a list
> > >of available commands, put the word 'help' by
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> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> N‹§²æìr¸›yúèšØb²X¬¶Ç§u¦åjy™¨¥¶†ä²ú%v+ºË+z«ž²×ëyéb²Û(®
> >
> n¶Ø^Šݺ{.nÇ+‰·›Ê+lzWâžØ^²æãyËeŠw“¢jX¬¶‡Ú½¨¥i¹^r‰¦jwl¦ëm…ì(Ø^––òŠÛ•ø
> > §¶¬¹¸ÞrÙb
> To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to
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