[bksvol-discuss] Re: a little frustrated with a book I'm working on

  • From: "Jill O'Connell" <jillocon@xxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 18:56:09 -0700

Jamie, If you have a public library convenient for you, I think you will enjoy getting to use it. I had never done this before starting to scan and proofread for Bookshare, and to think of all the years I have supported them with my taxes. Anyway, I can access their books on a web site, either request on line or call in and am notified when the book arrives. If you don't have easy access, however, I certainly understand; I just happen to be lucky that way. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jamie Prater" <jdprater@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>

To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 5:44 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: a little frustrated with a book I'm working on

Hi, Shelley, thanks again for going ahead and submitting the who gets the
drumstick book even though it did need some cleaning up.  I didn't mind
cleaning it up and I would have done more if I had known what to do.  I
figured the book was old and that more than likely accounted for the minor
boo-boos.  I was just frustrated about page issues as I understand the
concepts of what everybody's told me, it just souhnds like there's the
appropriate amount of space before and after page numbers when there might
not be and that is frustrating.  Also, I'm not used to using our local
library or any library to get books. I only use the libraries for the blind
and now bookshare, so I'm not sure if I could have gotten the book to
rescan.  I'm not mad at you for sending the book in before you did your
usual stuff for me as we agreed I really wanted to read the book, and I
don't regret the time I spent with it.  I honestly do not remember reading
anything about proofreaders needing a printed copy so we could rescan pages.
I'm not sure whose responsibility that should have been.  I'd have been
willing but not able, and not sure how to save the pages that needed to be
rescanned so they could be properly entered into the book. I'll be glad to read the manual again, but I don't remember any of this being covered about
who should rescan pages when this is necessary.  I also was trying to find
the duplicated text I was asked to delete and for some reason, I couldn't
find it.  Off list, Shelley, could you tell me how to edit books on my
braillenote?  Do I need a CF card as I only use thumb drives for books on
the braille note.  I do not know where to get and how much a compact flash
card cost. I've had job problems lately, so I can't buy a CF card yet. By
the way, no problem, but I'm a female Jamie.  Please do not be offended by
anything I have said as I would like to work with you again sometime.  I
loved the book in spite of all this and will most likely download it to read
again and again as I've watched the movie yours, mine, and ours several
times.  Thanks again and have a blessed day.  PS:  I think I'll wait until
you do your usual stuff before I proofread a book as you're a good worker
for bookshare and it'll be worth the wait.  Have a blessed day and keep up
those great submissions.  I love the craft and nature and other books.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Shelley L. Rhodes" <guidinggolden@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 1:25 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: a little frustrated with a book I'm working on

Hi Mayrie Renae and jamie P.

    I apologize to jamie for the frustration that he is experiencing with
this book.  I told him I was going to submit it raw, without cleaning it
up first as he wanted to read it, and would edit it.

It was a first edition, from 1965 and was yellowed as books from that time
will be.  As I spot read it it appeared to be just fine and was readible
with no really oddities.  I will be happy to put it on the cf card and
work on it as I have time to get it cleaned up.  It is apparently being
edited by someone else, and as the submitter i can no longer reject my own
books or work on them, (not that I did often).
mayrie's suggestions of what those characters are is a good one.  I know
from my own experiences with this scanner and how I do things that junk
often does appear on the top of the page or bottom of the page. It may be there for a couple of reasons, perhaps the book had a fancy graphic beside
the page number, had one book one time that had leaves on either side of
the number and naturally they never scanned correctly, shrugs!  Another
book i had, had a book jacket that extended way beyond the page of the
book and if I wasn't careful i ended up with extra junk or words from the
book jacket tacked onto the page, that was frustrating.

If you want a cleaned up submission that I usually do check out The Legend
of Luke.

How I normally prepare books for submission follows two tracks.

1. I scan the book i want to read, spot check it as I scan to ensure
readibility and make sure I haven't missed any pages.
Then I save it as a .rtf (I hate spell check), and load it onto my compact
flash card for my Braillenote.  When waiting for customers, traveling,
relaxing at home or before bed I will relax with the Braillenote and edit
some of a book on there removing junk, fixing spelling, grammar and the
like, removing headers, protecting page numbers and all of that.  After
the book is cleaned up I will put it back onto my computer and submit the
cleaned up .rtf file to the site with note that it has been read through
and all the junk and wierd formatting is cleaned up.

Track two usually involves a book that someone wants that I may not
exactly be interested in. If Democrats had Any Brains falls distinctly in
this category.  Frankly i did not want to read this book, but it was
requested for the site, and someone was willing to clean it up for me.

I love scanning, the physical act is actually quite medatative for me, and
I am good and quick at it.

There are a few things I find quite annoying however and spell check is
one of them.  I hate using it for work, email, and editing of books.  In
some ways it rubs me like nails on a chalk board so I avoid it as much as

I am also blind as is Mayrie and many of the other people on the list.  I
learned over the years to do a couple of tricks to solve challenging
scanning problems.

If I need to reascan a page I will write on a sticky note the page number.
When i pick up the book from the library, corner a sighted friend or
family member I will ask them to mark the page.  if I can't find someone
then I will just scan a random page, determine the page number and then
pick another page from there.

There are tricks to this thing we call bookshare honestly there are.

Shelley L. Rhodes, M.A., VRT
And Guinevere: Golden Lady Guide Dog
Guide Dogs for the Blind
Alumni Association

The people who burned witches at the stake never for one moment thought of
their act as violence;
rather they thought of it as an act of divinely mandated righteousness.
The same can be said of most of the violence we humans have ever
committed. -Gil Bailie, author and lecturer (b. 1944)

----- Original Message ----- From: "Mayrie ReNae" <mayrierenae@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 6:03 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: a little frustrated with a book I'm working

Hi Jamie,

Well, the simplest question first. Page numbers need to be on a
separate line and separated from the text on the page by a blank line
because the tool that converts the rtf file to daisy and braille needs
separation to know what information to use as page number navigation.
Without separating the page number from the text on the page by a blank
line, that tool doesn't know what text is a page number and what text is
just text to be read.

Microsoft word inserts page numbers that are only visible when
printing a document. They are not part of the text. Page numbers need to
actually typed into the rtf document to actually appear there as text.

As for being totally blind, that shouldn't cause you any problems in
and of itself.  Many of us, myself included, are totally blind and
these tasks regularly and without problems. So, take hope, you can do it
too.  We just need to figure out how to help you learn to do it.

Junk characters are characters that mean nothing in the text.  Very
often, the headers in books scan as junk because OCR doesn't understand
font that the headers are printed in and can't interpret it as text.  So
as readers of a scanned book see junk.  That's why we remove it.  Just
remove it, the junk that is.

Headers almost always appear on the same line as the page number
when the page number is at the top of the page. That is very likely what
the junk is that you are seeing that is garbled.

It happens very often that chapter headings are not preceded on the
page by a page number.  I honestly doubt that garbage that you see on a
after a page number is a chapter heading. That is very uncommon.  You
need to locate each chapter heading and put the page number and a blank
before it on the page.  Otherwise, the stripper (same tool that I
above with an evil glitch) may remove the chapter headings. This needs to
done by hand.

Some of the books that you work on will be clearer scans than others
depending on a lot of things. Some books just don't scan well. Lots of
factors contribute to that, quality of paper, type of font used, lighting
the room when the book was scanned, skill of the person doing the scan,
of things, including how much preparatory work the submitter did before
book got to you.

You don't need to rescan missing text necessarily.  Very often the
submitter of the book can rescan the needed pages and send you via e-mail
the missing text.  If the submitter no longer has access to the book,
perhaps someone else can rescan the text that you need, if you don't
can't get, or can't scan that missing text for yourself. Lots of options
there. You just need to choose one and ask.

I'm not sure where the trouble comes with removing duplicated text.
I don't know if you don't trust yourself to know what should be removed,
if you don't know the keystrokes to remove it.  The first is easy.  If
read text twice, probably the repetition needs to go.  If you need to
the keystrokes to select and remove text, we can help you with that, but
would help to know what software you're using to work on books.

 Have I covered all of your questions?  If not, just ask.


-----Original Message-----
From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jamie Prater
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 2:13 PM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] a little frustrated with a book I'm working on

Hi, all, I'm a little frustrated about a book I'm working on.  It's
who gets the drumstick, and it's a fantastic book that I've been wanting
read, and I've thoroughly enjoyed reading it.  I'm frustrated because I
asked to rescan a book that I'm only the proofreader of. I hope and pray
can do all the deleting of duplication of text and putting page numbers
separate lines that I have been asked to do.  I have no sighted help
whatsoever and am totally blind and am wondering how I'm to accomplish
when after every page number there uninteligible characters--probably
representing Roman numeral chapter headings and/or braille paging numbers
something.  I don't want to make the situation worse.  I had similar
troubles with another book--a children's book called Little Prince
know-it-all, and it still has yet to be added to the collection. What is
that makes the page numbers not be on a separate line and need to be
on a separate line?  I've not had to number pages in MicroSoft word in
almost four years and am at a loss as to how to fix the mistakes. Please
advise as I want Shelley and myself to get the book ready for publishing
into the collection for others to enjoy and I want us both to have credit
for the work.  How am I supposed to get the rescanned book page into my
corrected and/or proofread copy and why is it that some books have these
page issues and some are placed and numbered clearly and properly?
for any and all suggestions and help as I want others to get access to
fantastic book.  It is truly a warm and delightful story of family life
should be a classic if it isn't already.

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