Well, as Carrie pointed out, you can learn something from any book. But if you are going to classify some books as educational and others as not educational then you have to draw the line somewhere. The rationale for where that line is drawn, though, can be mystifying. Personally, I think that of all the genre fiction the most educational is science fiction followed closely by mysteries, but, even as a science fiction fan, I feel comfortable with it not being designated as educational if all the other genre fiction is not. That which makes me uncomfortable is the designation of so-called Literature with a capital L as educational based on the pronouncements of self appointed literature mavens. Aside from the fact that most of that Literature with a capital L tends to be rather boring I fail to see how it is any different from genre fiction or how it is any more educational. After all, it is still fiction. In cases like that it seems to me that the word educational is being arbitrarily applied to justify snobbery. With this announcement that genre fiction is now on par with that Literature with a capital L I do feel more comfortable, but even as a non romance fan I am perplexed by the exclusion of romance. "If you don't stand for something you will fall for anything. " Malcolm X The Militant: http://www.themilitant.com Pathfinder Press: http://www.pathfinderpress.com Granma International: http://www.granma.cu/ingles/index.html _ table with 2 columns and 6 rows Subj: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Which books count toward the grant? Date: 10/28/2009 2:10:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time From: kimfri11@xxxxxxxxxxx Reply-to: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent from the Internet (Details) table end Hi, and therein hangs a tale! Today's trash (romance being considered as such [I disagree]) is tomorrow's classic literature. I hear there are people who want to read pulp fiction, dime novels, or penny dreadfuls. It gives one the sense of a time period and what people were reading. Some stuff sold on the street were pretty scurrilous and of course British music hall was pretty topical. I suppose one could say that about rap lyrics, and I'm willing to concede that although I'm unwilling to listen to it even given the concession on my part. I suppose if a book gives one insight into the human condition you can use it to point out good or bad behavior so that might be considered instructive on what to do or what not to do. Regards and happy reading. As for me, I'll let the bean counters count their beans and the wranglers wrangle. I prefer to read what I like whether it's considered educational or not. Oh! I just thought of this! You could say that romance literature is educational, for if the writing is good, it inspires other people to write well. The plots are tight, so one must write succinctly, and above all, entertaining storytelling is what the average person (or above average come to that) wants in a book. Good writing is good writing, and if you want to tell a story you must know how to engage and hold the reader's attention. If a book is boring, the writer has failed to engage his/her audience. (If you want me to make up good rationales for putting stuff in Bookshare, just give me an email and I'll come up with truthful humdingers you can use. (No charges for services.) Regards, Kim. -----Original Message----- From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Cindy Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 8:42 PM To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Which books count toward the grant? I can make a guess that some genres like science fiction and mysteries are taught in college courses and some are required reading in high school English classes. I've never seen an out-and-out-, or should I say modern romance, be required reading though of course, classics like Jane Austen and the Bronte sisters--"considered "literature are. I would suspect, too, that these days gay fiction would be or his required reading in some college courses, and maybe even in in high school.There's one classic an early piece of Lesbian fiction; I don't remember the title, but it was required reading my my daughter's lit class. Cindy Wish List (i.e., books wanted added to the collection) and books-being-scanned list available at sites below Wish List: https://wiki.benetech.org/display/BSO/Bookshare+Wish+List Books Being Scanned List: https://wiki.benetech.org/display/BSO/Books+Being+Scanned+List --- On Tue, 10/27/09, Carrie Karnos <ckarnos@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > From: Carrie Karnos <ckarnos@xxxxxxxxx> > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Which books count toward the grant? > To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Date: Tuesday, October 27, 2009, 8:13 PM Well, in one sense, EVERY > book is educational because it teaches or shows you something you > didn't know before. But that doesn't help here, making every book > "educational," so we can throw that definition out. > > It's difficult to know where to draw the line between educational and > non-educational. We've been discussing what an "educational" book > consists of, since we got the grant 2 years ago, and going round and > round and round about it. Now that the Feds have signed off on the > definition, we're going with it. No turning back. > > No one has explained the logic of why genre fiction counts and romance > doesn't count to me, but maybe it's because most romances are very > formulaic, whereas there's a great variety of plots and situations in > the other genre categories. There are several romances that I've said > were educational, and of course all of Jane Austen's works are > educational and quite romantic. So there are exceptions to the rule. > > Now the librarian has been tasked with coming up with a definition of > a "textbook". Here we go, round and round again! Whee! > > Carrie > > From: > Melissa Smith <mdsmith25@xxxxxxxx> > To: > bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Sent: Tue, > October 27, 2009 4:33:30 PM > Subject: > [bksvol-discuss] Re: Which books count toward the grant? > > I completely agree here, Roger. Yes, I am a romance fan, though I > read most of my romance from NLS, and my nonfiction from bookshare. > Not really sure why, but that's the way it is. Anyway, if thrillers, > science fiction, etc count why not romance. Romance is no more > fictionalized than any of these, and depending on the book, no more > adult than any of these. > > Melissa > > > > Rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx > wrote: > > I know that this sounds like an indignant question > from a romance fan, but I am not a romance fan. I am just a little > stunned and surprised. If thrillers, horror, mystery and science > fiction are considered educational then what the blue blazes is wrong > with romance? > > > > > > > > > > "If you don't stand for something you will fall for anything. > > " Malcolm X > > The > Militant: http://www.themilitant.com > <http://wwww.themilitant.com>Pathfinder > Press: http://www.pathfinderpress.com > > Granma International: http://www.granma.cu/ingles/index.html > <http://granma.cu/ingles/index.html> > > _ > > > > table with 2 columns and 7 rows > > Subj: [bksvol-discuss] Which books count toward the > grant? Date: 10/27/2009 7:01:39 > PM Eastern Daylight Time From: ckarnos@xxxxxxxxx > Reply-to: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > CC: pavim@xxxxxxxxxxxx > Sent from the Internet > > (Details) table end > > > > Hi gang, > > > > A volunteer asked which books qualify for the grant, > so I thought maybe there are others who don't know about this either. > This is a quick email to the > > group, so everyone knows which books count. > > > > To explain this by what's excluded, all books > qualify, except romances, books that are adult content, and books that > proselytize religion. Factual books > > about religion are fine, since they explain what > it's about, but books that push agendas at you do not qualify. It > doesn't matter where the book comes > > from - volunteers, outsourcers, publishers, or > anywhere else. > > > > To explain this by what's included, all kiddie > books (including teen romances) are okay, most non-fiction is okay, > "good" literature is okay, and finally, > > at long last, a decision was made, and it was decided > that genre fiction is okay. So books that are mysteries, thrillers, > Westerns, historical fiction, > > science fiction, fantasies, and horror are okay too. > But the minute you add romance to any of the adult genre fiction > books, the book doesn't count towards > > the grant. > > > > Of course, there will always be edge cases. We look at > those books on a case-by-case basis, and sometimes ask the Bookshare > librarian for a decision. > > > > I would > encourage those people who are scanning and proofing romances to > continue to do so. We at the office can't put any in, since all of our > time has > > to go towards fulfilling the grant. But there are lots > and lots of people who like romance and want to see more of it in the > collection. Please continue > > to put romances in! The Bookshare publisher liaison > mentioned that while most of the book markets dropped when the economy > dropped, the romance market > > is continuing to climb. So there you are. > > > > HTH, Carrie > > > To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to > bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a > list of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the > subject line. > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a list of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject line. __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4550 (20091028) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4550 (20091028) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4550 (20091028) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a list of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject line.