[bksvol-discuss] Re: Where are those contrarians?

  • From: "Hope Hein" <hmhein@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 07:10:00 -0400

Hi Shelley!
Do you have time to join the conference call this Wednesday evening. Even if you can't make it at 9P.ME. You can come and go when you have time. It is wonderful getting to know fellow book sharians.
Have a nice day and lots of chocolate.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Shelley L. Rhodes" <juddysbuddy@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005 10:45 AM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Where are those contrarians?

Hey Hope, hang on, there is Nothing as good as chocolate!!!!!!!!

Smile, well perhaps but not in my universe.

Shelley L. Rhodes and Judson, guiding golden juddysbuddy@xxxxxxxxxxxx Guide Dogs For the Blind Inc. Graduate Advisory Council www.guidedogs.com

The vision must be followed by the venture. It is not enough to
stare up the steps - we must step up the stairs.

-- Vance Havner
----- Original Message ----- From: "Hope Hein" <hmhein@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005 7:25 AM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Where are those contrarians?

I heartily agree.
Although I am new to book share the chapter and page numbers are needed in
school books and books for research. Especially if a blind person is
attending class with sighted people who have the books in print.
I love book share and think it is the best thing since chocolate. Taking
away the stripper would make book share even more wonderful.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Janice Carter" <Janice.C@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 6:48 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Where are those contrarians?

Rui, despite your best efforts, you will always be special to
Bookshare.org's ongoing growth and development.   (Yes, I met Rui in
person on numerous occasions at the NFB 05 Conference.)

We might ask that you give us a little more time to organize all of the
great feedback we received at the past few conferences and submit to the
larger group for additional comments and suggestions as we plan for the
next year of Bookshare.org.


-----Original Message-----
From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Rui
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 3:28 PM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Where are those contrarians?


I would like to here from people who disagree with me.
Let me know why you think the current setup makes sense.

I do not mean for people to play devil's advocate with this.
I'm asking if anyone seriously disagrees with the centiments expressed
the last 30 hours.

(There is a method to my madness)

-- Rui (who is probably liked at Benetech right now as much as the

----- Original Message ----- From: "Deborah Kent Stein" <dkent5817@xxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 6:26 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: stripper and colatteral damage

Dear Charlyn and Bookshare community,

I think a petition is an excellent idea. Charlyn, would you like to
together?  Rui, would you put it on the Bookshare Scans site?

I also think we should select a day to make phone calls and send
emails to
the Bookshare staff calling on them to turn off the stripper. How
Thursday, July 28, one week after this most recent stripper discussion

We need to take in the fact that, as Bookshare volunteers and users,
have direct say on policy issues.  Right now this list is virtually
vehicle we have for reaching the staff, and it is clearly ineffective.

stripper issue highlights a need for a more formalized means of
communication.  Maybe we should develop an advisory committee which
bring concerns to the staff and have a real voice in policymaking.

As blind people, most of us have grown up with the sense that we're
get whatever reading matter is offered to us.  We had better be
and not complain.  On the title page of every book from the National
Service we read that the book has been produced for the blind and
handicapped "with the kind permission of the publisher."  That line
"the kind permission" says so much! Do sighted people need anyone's
permission in order to read? I AM in fact extraordinarily grateful to
volunteers and others who have spent countless hours putting books
Braille and recorded formats for us, and to those who have worked to
copyright laws and make our special-format books possible!  Most of us

not be literate, educated, contributing members of society without
help! But I think that our lifelong dependence upon others to provide
with books, and the constant feeling that we must be grateful and that
can't expect too much, do take a toll.

Bookshare is different. Bookshare is a program which is not only FOR
but BY us.  We, the volunteers, determine what books go into the
and we ourselves make them available.  We are not "only volunteers"
no right to determine policy.  We are the backbone of the program - a
program which is created to meet our needs and those of other blind
print-disabled people.  The Bookshare staff are not users of Bookshare
materials.  They do not live with the inaccessibility of print; they
experience our issues from the inside. It is absolutely essential
listen to what we have to say.

Bookshare is an incredible program, and I believe in it utterly. It
potential to narrow the print gap for us as no other program ever has
before.  But we need to take a stand and insist that it be the quality
program we all deserve.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlene" <caota@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 12:11 AM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: stripper and colatteral damage

Maybe we could put together a pteition of some sort and put a notice
the volunteer website as well to see if we could get enough people to
sign it to send to bookshare requesting them to stop using the

-----Original Message----- From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Pam Quinn Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 7:02 PM To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: stripper and colatteral damage

We take pride in our submissions and I just don't think a lot of the bookshare staff understands how angry and frustrated we are when we
that our submissions have been mangled. And for what? I just don't
it. Why do they insist on holding on to that useless program that
wants? Seems to me if anything, dropping it would mean one less step
less work in putting the books on the site.

I use chapter headings for my breaking points in .mp3 files too, when
I'm lucky enough to have them.

It might not be our decision and they might not want to listen to us,
but that would be unfortunate, because the volunteers and subscribers
have a major role in determining the future of bookshare.


Original message:

>I have seriously considered not submitting some books I have scanned
>because I thought they would be of little use after the stripper
>with them.  I put a lot of work in to what I submit and it is really
>upsetting to see the final result when my original looked so nice,
>is only a volunteer's view.  I also am upset by the messes that I
>accross when I am reading, even for pleasure.  I use the chapter
>as my MP3 creation breaking points, so if they aren't there I have a
>I don't really like throwing fits, and I won't on this list because
>seems to serve little purpose, but the fits are completely
>If i submitted a book in DAISY and BRF format instead of in RTF
>normal automated processes be skipped?  That is the only thing I can
>of to rescue books where the headers, headings, and page numbers are
>Sarah Van Oosterwijck
>Assistive Technology Trainer http://home.earthlink.net/~netentity
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Deborah Kent Stein" <dkent5817@xxxxxxx>
>To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 7:10 PM
>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: stripper and colatteral damage
>> Hear, hear!  I agree 200%!
>> We have been telling the Bookshare staff about our concerns,

>> but firmly, literally for years. Despite all the talk, nothing
>> changed. I am beginning to think we need to take stronger action.

>> ARE volunteers. >> We do not have to contribute the thousands of hours we put into
>> program. And Bookshare cannot survive without us. Do we need to
>> will have to stop scanning and validating until we know that
>> there is really listening to us, and taking action?  It should not
>> to
>> come down to threats and strikes, but many of us are at our wit's
>> What
>> is it going to take to turn off the stripper and stop mangling the
>> we
>> work so hard to make available?
>> Debbie
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Rui" <goldwave@xxxxxxx>
>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 11:16 AM
>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] stripper and colatteral damage
>>> Good Afternoon:
>>> At the bookshare users meeting at NFB, I made it very clear to
>>> (like
>> he didn't know already) the issues with the stripper and why i
>> it should be removed.
>>> The whole concept of the stripper bothers me, not just the fact
>>> does
>> more than it's supposed too.
>>> Its very reason for being agrivates me.
>>> Regular print books have headers, some have footers, that is part

>>> a >> print book. >>> If we want digital copies of print books then, take the good with >>> the >>> bad. >>> Do not sanitize the book to make it more access technology

>>> The >> very fact that is accessible already does that. >>> If i don't want to read the headers, i can strip them out myself
>>> use
>>> my
>> own automated tool to do so.
>>> However,  If by chance I do want them there, I simply do not get
>>> that
>> option with Bookshare!!!
>>> Words do not do justice to how much this issue ticks me off.
>>> Bottomline, this process does not serve the community that it was
>>> designed
>> to assist.
>>> -- Rui
>>> >
>>> > From: Mike Pietruk <pietruk@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> > Date: 2005/07/21 Thu AM 11:00:39 EDT
>>> > To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: stripper
>>> >
>>> > Pam
>>> >
>>> > agreed!  It's inconsistent and unpredictable.  And the problems
>>> > relative
>>> > to it have been discussed repeatedly.
>>> > The Powers-that-be are all too aware of the damage the stripper
>> caused
>>> > but seem to have shoved it on the back burner probably due to

>>> > pressing issues to deal with. It is a shame that it cannot be >>> > dealt with; but Marissa, prior to her leaving, pretty much >>> > outlined where it stands. So I wouldn't expect much change >>> > regarding the stripper as any change would require some sort of >>> > policy change plus programmer action. Conceptually, the
>>> > makes sense; practically, it has been a
>> dismal
>>> > failure breading as much (or perhaps even more) than it has
>>> > repaired. It's not our decision as we are volunteers, not
>>> > decision-makers.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>> --
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