[bksvol-discuss] Re: The case of the proliferating page breaks
- From: "Kim Friedman" <kimfri11@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2011 00:12:46 -0700
Hi, Mayrie, I'll tell you something, but I'll have to hear from Rick
Costa first. Here's what he told me: assuming you have somebody who can
eyeball the file for you, you somehow get yourself to where the trouble
is on the lines of text. Next, you go into the paragraph presentation
area of the file and find out what settings you have on that particular
line of text. Now here's the weird part. I found out the "before" spin
box was set a little greater than zero, and the "after" spin box was at
474 or something outrageous like that. He basically told me where the
trouble stopped (which was at the top of page 10 of the book.) He said I
could try selecting all the text from where this mess started to where
it ended (use the control and shift keys with the left hand while
pressing the Down arrow key with the right hand), then hit alt+O to
enter the format menu and arrow until you hear "paragraph" and press
enter. Now go through the dialog boxes and check that the before and
after boxes are both set to 0 points. Then tab until you come to "okay"
then press the spacebar. The weird result of this maneuver is that the
page break count was reduced to 224 pages which sounds right to me. Can
I explain this? Not on your life. (I should tell you that I have a copy
of the original file where I tried Mr. Costa's suggestion and this is
the result I got.) I'm not guaranteeing this works for everything and
I'm not sure if my result is correct, but it sure feels reasonable to
me. I don't know the scanning program the submitter used, but if she
used Kurzweil like you and did the same things you do, then what
happened to her file is really weird and MSWord sure did a number on
her file, wouldn't you say? Cross your fingers and I'll let you know
what I hear. You know I think if there is a way that submitters and
proofreaders can make Word behave )assuming we decide to use the path of
least resistance [in my case, if the file is in .rtf it will open in
Word], then it will be really great for both branches of the deranged
perfectionist brigade to have a sure-fire technique to get the file in
its proper shape. I'm willing to try. Also, Mr. Costa suggests the
paragraph spacing be set to single rather than at "at least". I don't
know about this. Regards, Kim Friedman.
-----Original Message-----
From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mayrie ReNae
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 11:14 PM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: The case of the proliferating page breaks
Hi Kim,
Well then, I think Judy and Mike have the right of it, and I'm sorry to
say, I wouldn't want to be you. I do know though that if you're
determined, you'll solve the problem.
Hey, wait! I think I have an idea that will work and won't make you
have to learn a new and taxing, confusing new technique. How's about
you release the book, remind me what the name of it is, let me check it
out, open and save it in Kurzweil 1000 which should strip all the
styles, but won't mess up anything else? Then I can upload the book to
the approval queue and ask Carrie to put my fixed file back on the
checkout page with a hold on it for you.
I bet that'll work! Wanna try it?
Mayrie
-----Original Message-----
From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Kim Friedman
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 10:52 PM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: The case of the proliferating page breaks
Hi, Mayrie, I changed the width of the page to 22 inches so the whole
thing is 22 inches by 22 inches. I hate to tell you this but the page
count remains 255, ergo, no change at all. Regards, Kim.
-----Original Message-----
From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mayrie ReNae
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 10:03 PM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: The case of the proliferating page breaks
Hi Kim,
I don't have any other ideas. You do know, right, that those soft page
breaks won't hurt anything in the final uploaded book to Bookshare?
They're just really, really, annoying, frustrating, and sometimes
confusing to deal with as a proofreader, as, if you're like me, you
forget what page you're on, what page you're supposed to be on, and what
page Word thinks you're on, and all that means when combined.
I have never tried this, but can you widen the pages in page setup? I
know you said the page length is set at 22, the longest page one can
have, but can one have pages wider than 8.5? If you make the pages
really wide, wouldn't that maybe help? It certainly can't hurt.
So, maybe try that?
Do you know how to get to the page setup dialogue?
It's in the file menu, and once the dialogue opens, you need to press
control plus tab to get to the paper size tab and then choose a wider
page width if that's possible.
Guess what? It is possible, I just looked! You can choose to have a
22-inch wide page! So, your page would be 22 by 22 inches. Maybe
that'll get rid of the too many soft page breaks.
Try it and see! And let us know how it goes!
Good luck!
I hope it works!
Mayrie
-----Original Message-----
From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Kim Friedman
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 9:46 PM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: The case of the proliferating page breaks
Hi, Mayrie, just for grins I made a third copy of the original file. I
opened the file, selected all, did the find-and-replace for extraneous
blank lines. It changed Ms. Word's page count from 256 to 255. So your
suggestion helped a little bit but not by much. So what does one do now
after this to get rid of soft page breaks? Regards, Kim. P.S.: Really
weird, isn't it? K.
-----Original Message-----
From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mayrie ReNae
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 9:13 PM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: The case of the proliferating page breaks
Hi Kim
Are all of the page breaks hard page breaks?
If you can't really tell, but you're pretty sure that your problem is
too much white space in big chunks, you can try this:
Open the find and replace dialogue by pressing control plus h In the
find box of the find and replace dialogue type ^p^p^p (That's the caret
followed by the lower case letter p) In the replace box type ^p^p Hit
enter on replace all. Repeat this process until Word tells you you've
made zero replacements.
What you're doing here is eliminating all big chunks of white space, but
keeping single blank lines if they need to be there, which might help to
get rid of soft page breaks if they exist.
And, no, your screen reader isn't causing the problem.
Good luck, and let us know if this helps.
Mayrie
-----Original Message-----
From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Kim Friedman
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 8:16 PM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] The case of the proliferating page breaks
Hi, I'm working on a document which is kind of peculiar. First of all,
the submitter set the whole thing to custom size (22 inches by 8.5
inches) and the paragraph presentation was set to the usual standard as
mentioned for optimum proofreading. Even though this was apparently the
case, the document when opened in Word 2003 said the file had 256 pages
when the actual page count in the book is 216 pages. I followed this
procedure: 1. Selected the entire document which took me to the bottom
of the file: 2. Entered the format menu and selected the paragraph
settings. My question is how is it possible for one to get into the
paragraph settings and somehow deselect the document so that one isn't
getting the whole file set correctly? I was under the impression when
one selected the entire document and went into the paragraph
presentation dialog boxes that whatever changes one made was supposed to
affect the whole document and not have the internal pages set
differently from what it's supposed to be. Is there some settings in
Word which are configured wrong or is it some peculiarity of the
scanning program or OCR which has messed up this pagination so this
proliferating page break situation occurs? I consulted with Rick Costa
who had the file in front of him. I was told that about ten percent of
the document must have a lot of white space which seemed to cause the
huge amount of page breaks. He is also curious to know if the screen
reader affects the file in any way. I don't think this is so just
because its job is simply to read what is on the monitor screen. I don't
see how an .rtf file or it's opening in MS Word should affect it. I also
don't see why going into the paragraph presentation in the formatting
menu should deselect what was selected. Do any of you know? This would
be very helpful to submitters who turn in files and it would also help
proofreaders who come across this proliferating page break phenomenon.
Regards, Kim Friedman. P.S.: The book I'm working on is Scales of
Retribution by Cora Harrison. (It is the sixth installment of the Burren
mystery series by her.) K.
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