[bksvol-discuss] Re: Text Files

  • From: Cindy <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 01:54:44 -0700 (PDT)

You make a good argument, Jake, and one that I can buy
into. I was thinking of it more as making books
available to members but you're right--working to make
poor or fair submissions excellent rewards people who
shouldn't be rewarded and lessens the incentive for
them to improve. I wish I'd thought of that a lot
sooner, or that someone had used that argument sooner.
smile. I am reformed. smile

Cindy

--- Jake Brownell <jabrown@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Hi Cindy,
> 
> I'm making a distinction between fair and poor. I
> use poor to refer to a 
> book that has unacceptable text quality.
> 
> My point is that a poor book someone takes the time
> to turn into excellent 
> might be viewed from the submitter standpoint as a
> green light to continue 
> because their scans are the highest rating possible.
> This has the potential 
> to send more of a 'go ahead' message than does a
> poor book being fixed up 
> enough to be fair or good. So, partially fixing up a
> poor book all the way 
> to excellent is a drain of resources, and is
> encouraging bad submissions 
> quite a bit.
> 
> Submitters who submit excellent quality rated fair,
> and then have it change 
> to excellent will understand that the level of
> quality they provide is that 
> level, and will hopefully continue to produce that
> same level.
> 
> I'm not advocating that books rated fair be
> automatically rejected by a 
> validator, I'm asking that poor text quality (poor
> not fair) be rejected out 
> right. If the book isn't special of course, i.e.
> it's rare or no matter the 
> scan, it would require extensive work. If you have
> to work on a standard 
> book to make it fair....why are you doing it? It
> takes your attention away 
> from processing several other books of higher
> quality and sends a bad 
> message, too.
> 
> Jake
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Cindy" <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 11:03 PM
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Text Files
> 
> 
> >I was under the impression that Fair was the
> default
> > rating, and that submitter and/or validator should
> > change it if they'd worked on the book and it was
> Good
> > or Excellent. If the submitter left the rating as
> Fair
> > figuring that the  validator would correct it
> after
> > validation, when maybe in fact the true rating
> should
> > be higher than Fair, then books would be rejected
> that
> > actually have a higher quality.
> >
> > Cindy
> >
> > --- Jake Brownell <jabrown@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> >> Evan,
> >>
> >> You may make some good points, but keep in mind,
> >> your ideas were expressed
> >> with the idea that the submitter gets information
> >> back from the automated
> >> rater, which they do not, only validators see
> those
> >> numbers.
> >>
> >> And, since some volunteers are fond of fixing up
> bad
> >> books into Excellent
> >> ones, if the submitter sees it is excellent, but
> >> doesn't check the file,
> >> they may not realize that it has totally changed.
> >> Therefore they think their
> >> original submission was excellent when it may
> have
> >> been poor. Hey, this
> >> sounds like a great argument as to why poor books
> >> should be rejected without
> >> crying over them.
> >>
> >> Jake
> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> From: "Evan Reese" <mentat1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 7:56 PM
> >> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Text Files
> >>
> >>
> >> > What is the definition of poor quality?  I
> agree
> >> with you that we need to
> >> > up the standard, but the first indication of
> book
> >> quality submitters get
> >> > is from the automated system.  No one answered
> my
> >> question as to how books
> >> > are rated by the automated system.  Those
> numbers
> >> have to be known, since
> >> > they had to be programmed in there in the first
> >> place.  Whatever those
> >> > category assignment cutoffs are, perhaps they
> need
> >> to be notched up a bit
> >> > so that submitters get a more accurate rating
> of
> >> low-quality books.  But
> >> > that notching up will have to go through some
> kind
> >> of process I imagine to
> >> > decide what percentage of accuracy constitutes
> >> Excellent, what counts as
> >> > Good, etc. Clearly, those cutoffs are too low
> at
> >> present.  How bad does a
> >> > book have to be before it is considered
> >> unacceptable by the automated
> >> > system?  Is there even a contingency for such
> >> books?
> >> >
> >> > Obviously, you and I know poor quality when we
> see
> >> it, but if submitters
> >> > get a Fair or even Good rating on submissions,
> and
> >> those ratings are not
> >> > changed, then they will continue to submit
> books
> >> that they may very well
> >> > think are at least Fair and perhaps even good. 
> If
> >> you are the kind of
> >> > person who is blas� about scan quality, but
> when
> >> you submit a book it gets
> >> > a rating by that system of Fair or even Good,
> why
> >> would you quit doing it?
> >> > It is certainly possible that some people are
> >> knowingly submitting junk,
> >> > but I would venture to guess that there are
> many
> >> who think they are doing
> >> > a good job when they are in fact not because
> the
> >> only feedback they get is
> >> > from the automated rating system.  They don't
> >> interact with validators,
> >> > and so may not know what kinds of problems they
> >> need to work on.
> >> >
> >> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> > From: "E." <thoth93@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 5:04 PM
> >> > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Text Files
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> At the same time txt files are eliminated
> could
> >> we also eliminate taking
> >> >> books of poor quality?  I really think it
> sends
> >> the wrong message to
> >> >> those who submit books, to the poor validators
> >> and to loyal members who
> >> >> pay money to subscribe.  We degrade the
> quality
> >> of the whole operation
> >> >> truly.
> >> >>
> >> >> E.
> >> >>
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