[bksvol-discuss] Re: SAVE Page numbers, Page Breaks
- From: Cindy <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 15:54:27 -0700 (PDT)
I do the same. I think it helps readers to know that
there are no pages of text missing, if they see a
numbered blank page.
Cindy
--- Gerald Hovas <GeraldHovas@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Rick,
>
> Sounds like you restated it correctly.
>
> I don't see any reason to explain that a page is
> blank. I once saw a
> textbook where the publisher had done the same thing
> in print, and I thought
> the practice looked rather stupid, especially since
> the page was no longer
> blank once the note had been added. <Smile> Sighted
> people don't have any
> trouble recognizing a blank page and realizing that
> it was left blank on
> purpose, and I personally don't understand why blind
> people would need any
> help recognizing a blank page and realizing the same
> thing either.
>
> I've been adding the page number and putting a blank
> line above and below it
> though as insurance that the Stripper won't default
> to the wrong page
> number, but I've noticed that the Stripper has
> trouble recognizing the page
> number, probably because it's the only line on the
> page. I've considered
> just leaving it blank because this causes the double
> set of page numbers on
> that page, but I'm still hesitating doing that
> because the head of
> Engineering once mentioned that the Stripper has
> trouble occasionally when
> the page doesn't have a page number. Sounds like
> one of those situations
> where there's no good choice. For the moment I'm
> erring on the side of
> adding the page number to the page since I believe
> this is easiest to
> correct and would hopefully be fixed at some point
> then the collection rerun
> through the tools at a later time correcting this
> problem. The collection
> wouldn't be rerun for something this minor, but that
> doesn't mean it won't
> be rerun for something else later on, like when
> NIMAS is supported or
> Bookshare is required to support a newer version of
> the DAISY standard.
>
> Oh, almost forgot to mention that you're correct in
> treating the roman
> numeral page numbers just like arabic page numbers.
> So far I haven't caught
> the tools not recognizing them as page numbers.
> Guess they got that right.
>
> HTH
>
> Gerald
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf Of Rik James
> Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 3:10 PM
> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: SAVE Page numbers,
> Page Breaks
>
> Wow, Gerald, thanks for this message, and taking
> your time to explain in
> such detail.
>
> I think I'm doing it this way now, but sadly, the
> first books I ever
> scanned, I was not so well informed. In fact, there
> was an email to me one
> time, saying they thought I had missing pages
> because of problems in the
> pagination. I had never paid one iota attention to
> pages before that. Now,
> I always do, at least to be sure I don't skip or
> double up on them.
>
> The only thing I didn't know was about the need for
> a blank line at the end
> of each page, which sometimes are already there, but
> I will make sure of
> that in the future. It makes sense that the stripper
> might see that it being
> too close to the next page's number.
>
> If I understand this correctly then, in my earnest
> attempt at being clear
> and at the expense of being tirelessly repetitive...
> (!)
>
> A Blank line above and below the page number at the
> top of the page.
> A blaink line above and below the chapter title
> below the page number.
> And to be sure there is a blank line at the bottom
> of each page.
>
> Now, how about the Roman numeral pages?
> Just do those as the other page numbers? That is
> what I have been doing.
> (Even though my speech does not know about how to
> say them!)
>
> And, how about pages that are blank, but ARE
> included in the pagination?
> What I have been doing (after my awakening), is
> this:
> I have been putting a page number on that page, with
> a blank line above and
> below it. And then under that I have been inserting
> the text
> [NOTE: PAGE IS BLANK]
>
> And an additional blank line under that.
>
> Okay?
> When I'm wrong, I'll admit it, unlike so many of our
> public figures today!
> (smile)
>
> Our local library is moving! It will go from a
> distance from my place of 8
> blocks to 15. Oh well, exercise can't be THAT bad
> for you, can it? Since
> they have an extended return due date time for
> borrowers, I have borrowed a
> few extra of some books by some Montana authors I
> find missing from
> Bookshare's collection (Richard Hugo, Jim Harrison,
> Richard Ford), and I was
> planning on trying to scan some for Bookshare in the
> next few weeks.
>
> I have 2 book submissions still awating validation,
> both books of short
> fiction:
>
> Gallatin Canyon. By Thomas McGuane
> Blues and Trouble. By Tom Piazza
>
> Both should be pretty quick validates, as I took
> care in their production in
> using the above methodology and uised the spell
> checkers before submitting.
>
> Thanks.
> Rik
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf Of Gerald Hovas
> Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 8:30 AM
> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: SAVE Page numbers, Page Breaks
>
> Barbara,
>
> The Bookshare tools don't strip page numbers. Some
> volunteers incorrectly
> came to this conclusion when they couldn't see them
> in K-1000. However,
> just because they weren't able to see them in K-1000
> doesn't mean that they
> were stripped. The problem was due to Bookshare and
> KESI storing the page
> numbers differently in the NCX file because the
> previous DAISY standard
> didn't specifically state how to store them. For
> proof that they weren't
> stripped, all you have to do is look at one of the
> BRF books or the HTML
> files which can be unpacked with the DAISY book.
>
> Now, that doesn't mean that page numbers might not
> be stripped by a
> volunteer who doesn't know what they are doing. If
> they use either K-1000
> or OpenBook to strip the headers/footers
> automatically, then they'll strip
> the page numbers right along with the text since
> page numbers are part of
> either the header or the footer. Some new
> volunteers even think they are
> supposed to strip page numbers to make the text flow
> more smoothly when
> reading with speech.
>
> Now to answer your question as to how to handle page
> numbers at the bottom
> of the page so that the Bookshare tools will handle
> them properly.
>
> * Leave a blank line before the page number as
> insurance to make sure the
> Stripper doesn't get confused about the page number
> being the footer.
> * Strip any text if it happens to be in the footer
> along with spaces and
> tabs to make the Stripper's job of recognizing the
> page number simple.
> There's no harm in doing this because if the
> Stripper recognizes the footer,
> then it will strip the text anyway.
> * Leave a blank line between the page number and the
> page break to prevent
> the page number from becoming part of the last
> paragraph in the HTML file
> that can be unpacked with the DAISY book.
>
> Here's a few more steps to make sure the book turns
> out well
>
> * Since the page numbers aren't part of the header,
> then strip the entire
> header to prevent any headers from being left in the
> book because the
> Stripper overlooks them due to their not being
> identical to the other
> headers. Again, there's no harm in doing this
> because if the Stripper
> recognizes the header, then it will strip it anyway.
> * If there are chapter headings in the book, then
> you'll want to create a
> header for the Stripper to strip on that page to
> prevent the chapter heading
> from being stripped. I recommend using the title
> because I've seen someone
> use the word Header, and the Stripper left it in the
> book. This was
> probably due to it being added to pages which
> shouldn't have a header.
> There would have been less confusion on the part of
> the reader, though, if
> the title had been used, and possibly less on the
> tool's part as well.
>
> Now for the other case where page numbers are part
> of the header, since some
> of the newer volunteers may be wondering what to do
> to prevent problems due
> to the tool known as the Stripper
>
> * Leave a blank line between the page number and the
> page break to prevent
> the page number from becoming part of the first
> paragraph in the HTML file
> that can be unpacked with the DAISY book.
> * Strip any text, spaces, and tabs which happen to
> be in the header to make
> the Stripper's job of recognizing the page number
> simple. There's no harm
> in this since the Stripper will strip them anyway if
> it recognizes the
> header.
> * Do not put anything above the page
> number-including dashes, asterisks, or
> other symbols-because that will make that line the
> header, and page numbers
> must be in the header or footer in order for the
> tool to process them. BTW,
> if page numbers aren't allowed to be processed
> because volunteers add that
> extra line above the page number thinking they are
> preventing the page
> number from being stripped, then it will cause two
> sets of page numbers in
> the BRF and HTML files: the real page numbers which
> have now become part of
> the main text and the page numbers which the
> Stripper uses as a default
> because it couldn't find any page numbers, and the
> two sets may or may not
> agree depending on how the pages in the book are
> numbered.
> * Leave a blank line after the page number as
> insurance to make sure the
> Stripper doesn't get confused about the page number
> being the header
> * If the book has chapter headings, then move the
> page number from the
> bottom of the page to the top of the page if the
> page number is included at
> the bottom of the page. If the page with the
> chapter heading doesn't
> include a page number, then add one above the
> chapter heading. Use the same
> guidelines as mentioned above for handling the page
> number if it were part
> of the header. Adding the page number or moving it
> to the top of the page
> will prevent the Stripper from confusing the chapter
> heading with a header
> and stripping it.
>
> Here are a few examples of how pages should look for
> those who understand
> better from examples. Just as a note, I'm using
> [Page Break] to represent a
> page break and a vertical ellipsis (three periods
> each on a line by itself),
> followed by Main Text, and another vertical ellipsis
> to represent the main
> text on the page since I don't want to copy a page
> from a book or make up a
> bunch of text, and because I want to keep the
> examples short.
>
> Example of a page with a chapter heading when the
> page numbers are normally
> at the top of the page
>
> [Page Break]
>
> 41
>
> CHAPTER THREE
>
>
>
>
> Main Text
>
>
>
>
> [Page Break]
>
> Example of a page with a chapter heading when the
> page numbers are always
> found at the bottom of the page
>
> [Page Break]
>
> The Pelican Brief
>
> Chapter 7
>
>
>
>
> Main Text
>
>
>
>
> [Page Break]
>
> Example of a page without a chapter heading when
> pages appear at the top of
> the page
>
> [Page Break]
>
> 80
>
>
>
>
> Main Text
>
>
>
>
> [Page Break]
>
> Example of a page without a chapter heading when
> pages appear at the bottom
> of the page
>
> [Page Break]
>
>
>
>
> Main Text
>
>
>
>
> 99
>
> [Page Break]
>
> HTH
>
> Gerald
>
> P.S.
>
> People,
>
> Yes,I know some of you use other methods to protect
> chapter headings, and I
> also know that some of the methods volunteers
> recommend don't actually work
> after all because I've looked into what works and
> what doesn't, so everyone
> please refrain from explaining how they do it to
> prevent confusion.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gerald
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf Of Barbara J Wagreich
> Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 12:38 AM
> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Cc: Barbara J Wagreich
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Page numbers
>
> Hi:
>
> I have a book of poems I wnat to submit. the page
> nubmers are at the
> bottom of each page. How do I enter the page
> nubmers so they won't get
> stripped out in the conversion process to daisy and
> braille formats?
>
> Also the back cover page has relevant info. where
> do I insert this info?
> at the end of th e book?
>
> Thanks,
> Barbara Wagreich
>
>
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