In the words of Arthur C. Clarke, any technology sufficiently advanced is indistinguishable from magic. However, it is still technology and it is indistinguishable from magic only to those who do not understand it. In a case of magic being treated as technology in science fiction the actual test, I think, is whether that so-called magic is assumed, within the context of the story, to be a manifestation of the real universe or a manifestation of the supernatural. Science fiction and fantasy are about as different as any two genres can be, but in any literary genre you can find elements of any other. If a western can also be a mystery or a romance then a science fiction can also be a fantasy. What you might actually have is a science fantasy. If the magic is treated as a technology but is assumed within the context of the story to be supernatural and there are no other fantastic elements to the story then I think you have a fantasy. It might have science fiction trophes or be written in a style that gives the feel of science fiction, but it would be fantasy anyway. If it is labeled as science fiction it is mislabeled. Remember, the word science in science fiction is not there for nothing. Science is the study of the real universe. The fantastic elements in a science fiction story may not be possible in the real world, perhaps not even theoretically, but, after all, it is fiction. The question is whether it is assumed within the context of the story itself to be a manifestation of the real world.
_ _ _"Everything must justify its existence before the judgment seat of Reason, or give up existence." - Friedrich Engels
Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rogerbailey81 The Militant: http://www.themilitant.com Pathfinder Press: http://www.pathfinderpress.com Granma International: http://www.granma.cu/ingles/index.html----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Petraccaro" <garyp130@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 5:36 PM Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Questions that have surely been answered
There's a time-honored tradition of magic-treated-as-a-technology thread in SF which includes Magic, Inc. Operation Chaos, and Three Hearts and Three Lions.----- Original Message ----- From: "Kim Friedman" <kimfri11@xxxxxxxxxxx>To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 1:59 PM Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Questions that have surely been answeredHi, Misha, I'd say if magic is involved, I'd lean the book over toward fantasy. Mind you, I did read a fun story in Analog about a new branch of learning called "sorcistry" as opposed to sorcery. The analogy goes like this: chemistry is to alchemy what sorcistry is to sorcery. The idea being that since chemistry is more scientifically rigorous than alchemy, it follows sorcistry should have more qualitative data with the possibility of making repetitious experimental demonstrations to prove some theory or other. We both know sorcistry doesn't exist, but it was a fun story, nonetheless. People will believe (especially those who have studied science and physics), that astronomy is more preferable than astrology. Astronomy doesn't claim to explain the astral effects on people's behavior or decision making capabilities. I suppose they might be willing to acknowledge that the moon affects tides on earth, but that's about as far as they're willing to go. I never could understand why people should think the stars have any influence on our behavior. How can one's month or day of birth differentiate us from anybody else? Enough said on that head, I think. I think their are writers who are quite willing to come up with principles or rules for the use of magic in their fantasy works. I've noticed some writers are more systematic than others in explaining how magic works and why. There tends to be a cause-and-effect system, i.e., if you do a. then b. will result. I know Poul Anderson has written some fantasy, as has Harry Turtledove, David Drake, and David Weber. I've read some stories by Charles Stross which were published in Asimov's Science Fiction which became part of his Accelerando Sequence. I'm afraid I couldn't be engaged with these stories because I couldn't identify with the characters. I think he has another series involving trade amongst different universes that might engage my attention. I have no idea if Stross employs the use of magic in that series. Regards, Kim Friedman. -----Original Message----- From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 8:19 AM To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Questions that have surely been answered In general I'd like the separation of science fiction and fantasy, though it is sometimes difficult to tell which a book is. I'm currently reading a book by Charles Stross, the Atrocity Archives. In it mathematical proofs can call up demons and open portals to the places where they come from. Is that SF or fantasy. I suppose I could just mark both for that kind of book. Misha On 1/28/2011 8:20 AM, Kim Friedman wrote:Hi, Roger, I agree that science fiction should have its own category as well as fantasy. Horror has its own category and I would, like you,like to see science fiction and fantasy in two categories rather than one. I know there are authors who have written both but I'd like to beable to weed out the fantasy from the Star Wars novels. I know that mystery and thrillers are lumped together. Do you think they should beseparated? Say suspense and thrillers and mystery and detective fiction? Come to that, one can really go into details once one starts categorizing. I know there is a category called "Cooking, Food, and wine". I don't object to that, however I think there should be anothercategory called "Diet and Nutrition" to separate it from the cookbooks. Also I'd like fiction that has recipes to be taken from theCooking, Food, and Wine category and call it Food Fiction, i.e., bookswhere the protagonist has something to do with food and if there are recipes, that can come under that area because the primary focus is the story and food may be part of it but not the whole of it. Regards,Kim Friedman (having a go as nitpicker). -----Original Message----- From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Roger Loran Bailey Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 7:48 AM To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Questions that have surely been answered I think you are suggesting more categories and that would be good. As long as you are making those suggestions, though, let me rant about the most irritating thing about the categories for me. Science fictionand fantasy should be split. If you are going to lump genres together then atleastyou could lump something that have more to do with each other than science fiction and fantasy. _ _ _ "Everything must justify its existence before the judgment seat of Reason, or give up existence." - Friedrich Engels Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rogerbailey81 The Militant: http://www.themilitant.com Pathfinder Press: http://www.pathfinderpress.com Granma International: http://www.granma.cu/ingles/index.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Petraccaro"<garyp130@xxxxxxxxxxx> To:<bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 9:14 AM Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Questions that have surely been answered Maybe they could also come up with checkboxes for politics, sociology, and economics. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jamie Yates, CPhT To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 7:44 PM Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Questions that have surely beenansweredMaybe when engineering gets around to adding the checkbox for pictures are described they could add a checkbox for "this book is held for" a person and then that would trigger it to be on a separate checkout list? Then all of the held for books including the ones used to train new volunteers would not show up on the ready for checkout list? -- Jamie in Michigan Currently Reading: If I Should Die Before I Wake by Han Nolan Earn cash for answering trivia questions every 3 hours: http://instantcashsweepstakes.com/invitations/ref_link/49497 See everything I've read this year at: www.michiganrxtech.com/books.html To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a list of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject line. To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a list of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject line.To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a list of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject line. To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxput the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a list of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject line.To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxput the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a list of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject line.
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