[bksvol-discuss] Re: Question for Braille Readers

  • From: "E." <thoth93@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 07:21:13 -0400

I am a fulltime braille user. I spell extremely well. I do make typos in writing rapid emails. I think the reason I spell well is I had to spell out a lot of words each week in first through fourth grades and write them out in braille and later type them on a typewriter before computer keyboards.


E.


At 10:44 PM 3/24/2008, you wrote:
Even my full time braille users are horrible spellers, and it isn't for a
want of me trying for them to improve either!


Shelley L. Rhodes M.A., VRT, CTVI
and Guinevere, Golden lady Guide
juddysbuddy@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Guide Dogs For the Blind Inc.
Graduate Alumni Association Board
www.guidedogs.com

More than Any other time, When i hold a beloved book in my hand, my
limitations fall from me, my spirit is free.
- Helen Keller

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mayrie ReNae" <mrenae@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 9:53 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Question for Braille Readers


Hi Cindy,

         Poor spelling is certainly not limited to blind
people.  Blind people just have to work harder to spell well in these
days of speech.  I wish I could say that I'm a stellar speller.  I'm
not, but I do want not to be a poor one, so make the effort to attend
to my spelling better.

Peace,
Mayrie

At 06:37 PM 3/24/2008, you wrote:
>OOOOOOO, Mary, good job! I hadn't even thought of that aspect of it.
>Lots of people learn to write braille by how they read it; that is an
>important point in itself. They cement their braille knowledge and
>spelling, too, by what they see whether with fingers, I think, or with
>eyes. I think in this day of speech, which is lovely, we endanger them
>of having compromised spelling and braille reading ability. Although
>while we are on the topic, I am seeing a lot of sighted folk saying
>that they would like to write personnels rather than personals, and
>that you should definately do this or that.
>
>Cindy Lou the Cranky
>
>Cindy Lou Ray. Each day is a new adventure.
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Mayrie ReNae" <mrenae@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 8:23 PM
>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Question for Braille Readers
>
>
>Hi Cindy,
>
>          Well, we're both old and cranky then.  I don't know why
>people are willing to compromise proper punctuation when making it
>come out correctly in both print and braille takes only a couple of
>seconds when validating a file.  Contrary to what people seem to
>think, it is not incorrect in print to represent the em dashes as
>double hyphens.  We are just lucky enough these days to have them be
>a punctuation mark that our word processing software can insert.  And
>yes, Darrell may know what the hyphen  is supposed to mean in the
>place of an em dash, but does everyone, especially every young
>reader?  Do you want young kids to read NLS web braille books
>punctuated correctly and then bookshare books punctuated incorrectly,
>and wonder which punctuation mark she is supposed to use in her own
>writing,  when you as validators could clear that up easily?
>
>And, if we're talking about things like that, do you know how many
>times I see in books now and on e-mail lists the word "then" used
>where the word "than" should have been used?  An example of what I
>see in this case would be: "I like milk better then water." How many
>people misspell there their and they're?  That happens in the blind
>community because too many people didn't read enough braille to know
>the differences.  Now, we want to give them inaccurate braille too,
>when making it accurate takes less than thirty seconds to accomplish
>while validating a book?
>
>This is a subject that I hope gets resolved.  Otherwise, you all are
>going to hear me rant about sloppiness and laziness and compromising
>the educations of blind children for years to come.  And you'll want
>to tell me to put a sock in it.  And I won't.  I believe in educating
>our children properly.  It's difficult enough to find blind people
>who can spell.  And now you want to make them think that an em dash
>is a hyphen too?
>
>Okay,  I'll shut up now, for this round.
>
>Peace,
>Mayrie
>
>   At 03:47 PM 3/24/2008, you wrote:
> >Excuse me, but why is that compromising the book. In the rules of
> >NLS,
> >they say that when the book was being transcribed it wasn't always
> >easy to tell which it was, but if it would fit that -- requirement it
> >should be used. That's more or less a paraphrase, and I can't tell
> >you
> >exactly where. It doesn't compromise the print book in any way.
> >Personally, I cringe when I see it any other way, but then again I'm
> >old and cranky. LOL.
> >
> >Cindy Lou
> >
> >Cindy Lou Ray. Each day is a new adventure.
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Darrell Shandrow" <darrell.shandrow@xxxxxxxxx>
> >To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 5:39 PM
> >Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Question for Braille Readers
> >
> >
> >Hi Allison,
> >
> >My take on this may be a bit different than most Braille readers.  I
> >do not
> >feel it is a good idea to compromise the formatting of the print book
> >for
> >the sake of Braille translation, especially when it is not absolutely
> >necessary to do so.  We Braille readers know what is intended even
> >when only
> >a single dash appears.
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Allison Hilliker" <bookshare_girl@xxxxxxx>
> >To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 3:25 PM
> >Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Question for Braille Readers
> >
> >
> >Sue, Thanks for the info.  It's good to know how NLS does their
> >dashes.  So,
> >then my next question is, what does everyone prefer?  Should I create
> >double
> >dashes as NLS does, or simply leave things as is?
> >
> >Either is fine with me as replacing em dashes won't take too much
> >time.
> >
> >Best,
> >Allison
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "siss52" <siss52@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> >To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 2:22 PM
> >Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Question for Braille Readers
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Hi Allison,
> > >
> > > What the National Library Service does in their Braille books is
> > > to
> > > use
> > > two
> > > hyphens or dashes where the em dash would be.  For example, in
> > > this
> > > word--word.  But people have been leaving them as they appear in
> > > the
> > > book,
> > > and you are right, they translate to a single hyphen or dash.  So
> > > when we
> > > do
> > > that, the hyphen or single dash and the em dash look the same.
> > >
> > > In Word, when I have a file with em dashes in it, they look like a
> > > capitalized dash or hyphen on my Braille display.  It has dots 7
> > > and
> > > 8, so
> > > it looks like dots 3, 6, and 8.
> > >
> > > HTH,
> > >
> > > Sue S.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Allison Hilliker" <bookshare_girl@xxxxxxx>
> > > To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 3:39 PM
> > > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Question for Braille Readers
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi everyone,
> > >
> > > Quick question for Braille-readers.  I do read Braille myself, but
> > > I've
> > > never paid attention to this issue before.  I'm validating a book
> > > with a
> > > lot
> > > of em dashes.  They look like this. - They usually connect two
> > > words
> > > like
> > > this. word1-word2.  They do not usually have spaces around them.
> > > In
> > > the
> > > past I have left them as is in the books I validate.
> > >
> > > My question is, should I be doing anything special with the em
> > > dashes in
> > > order to make them easily read in Braille?  I've never known there
> > > to be a
> > > special Braille character for the em dash, but there may be one.
> > > Does it
> > > just look
> > > like a regular dash, or something else?  Do they appear with
> > > spaces
> > > around
> > > them or not?  Would most of you prefer me to add spaces, change
> > > the
> > > em
> > > dashes to regular dashes, leave them alone, or something else?
> > >
> > > Thanks for any feedback you can give.
> > >
> > > Best,
> > >
> > > Allison
> > >
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